Author Topic: Australian Lookups Offer [NSW, Vic, Tas, WA] + Aussie BDM & migration websites  (Read 46157 times)

Offline sparrett

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #45 on: Saturday 17 September 05 01:20 BST (UK) »
Hi  Rachel and Helen,

 I have greatly enjoyed watching the unfolding of this search which,as so often happens in Aust. records, ends up with convicts stepping out of the cupboard!!  A source of great pride for most down here.
 I have had the same experience.

Rachel, I note your comment about the recorded ages of the passengers on the assisted and unassisted immigrants lists.

I have noticed that they are regularly off the mark  by as much as 8 or more years.  Why do you think this is?   Sue

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Brisgirl

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #46 on: Saturday 17 September 05 02:59 BST (UK) »
Hi Helen,

That's really great news!  It looks like the jigsaw puzzle is coming together and I'm glad I could help you out.

I know how excited you are to discover the connection with the "Lady Juliana" as I also have a Second Fleet convict, Richard Cornelius Burrows, who came out on the "Scarborough".  He married a First Fleeter, Elizabeth Cole.  I've got a copy of "The Floating Brothel" and have looked up the references to Charlotte ... the book is a great read.

I had a general look on the Internet for the "Lady Juliana" and on this website:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~schafferi/LADY%20JULIANA%20CONVICTS.htm

it states that Charlotte was 21 at trial, married H. McGinnes in Hobart Town in 1810 and died in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) in 1828.

Keep me posted of any further developments, and I'm happy to assist further wherever I can.

Cheers, Rachel
Hewson (Dublin); Beacom (Co. Tyrone), Beer (Devon); Perry (Warwickshire); Tanner (Wiltshire); Mostyn Owen (Shropshire & Wales); Coles (Somerset & London); Fox (Cornwall); Peirce (Monmouth); Tolson (Yorkshire); Haigh (Yorkshire); Lunn (Yorkshire); Neill (Co. Down); Davies (Shropshire); Dryden (Roxburgh); McVane (Roxburgh); Lillico (Roxburgh); Symington (Roxburgh); Dickson (Roxburgh).

Offline Brisgirl

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #47 on: Saturday 17 September 05 03:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue,

There's probably more than one reason for the discrepancy of ages on passenger lists.  In my case, I have a family of ancestors - two adults and seven children - who were all listed as much younger than their true ages on an assisted passenger list.  I think the main reasons were emigrants wanting to appear to be of working age, and the age-related costs involved in getting passage to Australia. 

Some migrants may have had reasons to change their age, and even their name.  Some perhaps didn't even know how old they were.  It could be just clerical error or transcription error (eg. if you're looking at copies of lists online).  And remember that no-one had to produce birth certificates as proof of ID in those days!

Visit this website for details of the "Qualifications of Emigrants", put together in the 1850s (scroll down the page):

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/SAassistedindex.htm

Cheers, Rachel
Hewson (Dublin); Beacom (Co. Tyrone), Beer (Devon); Perry (Warwickshire); Tanner (Wiltshire); Mostyn Owen (Shropshire & Wales); Coles (Somerset & London); Fox (Cornwall); Peirce (Monmouth); Tolson (Yorkshire); Haigh (Yorkshire); Lunn (Yorkshire); Neill (Co. Down); Davies (Shropshire); Dryden (Roxburgh); McVane (Roxburgh); Lillico (Roxburgh); Symington (Roxburgh); Dickson (Roxburgh).

Offline sparrett

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #48 on: Saturday 17 September 05 03:58 BST (UK) »
Yes Rachel,
 For some it would be a lovely oportunity to knock a few years off as part of the Fresh Start in a New Land dream.  Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Shadrach

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA Completed
« Reply #49 on: Saturday 17 September 05 04:10 BST (UK) »
Hello Rachel & Sue too.

I absolutly agree, "The Floating Brothel" is a great
read in many way, not the least being the
description of the state of Sydney when
the ship arrived there.

This morning saw me on the interent first thing
and three more interesting piece of the story came to
light.  The IGI suprisingly has a marriage for
Hugh McGinnis and Charlotte Hall Simpson
"About 1797 Norfolk Island NSW" so I wonder
which is correct - Norfolk or Hobart Town.
Where were marriages on Norfolk recorded do
you know?

The other equally fascinating chapter is the
record of Charlotte's sentence found on the
"Proceedings of the Old Bailey" website which
gives her trial date of 24th October 1787, and the
original text "Charlotte Simpson, otherwise Hall, was
indicted for stealing, on the 19th July last, a pair of
silk stockings, value 1 s, a cotton gown, value 2 s,
a handerkerchiefs, value 1 s, and one paste pin, value
1 s the property of Joseph Bradley.
The prisioner was stopped pawning the things

Guilty.  Transported for seven years."


The third is a brief mention on the Irish Convicts website
of "Hugh McGuinness  Alias: Megennis    Irish Rebel
Tried 1789    Dublin    Sentence 7 years
Ship"  Queen 1791"
The Queen carried only Irish convicts and went straight to
Norfolk Island.


Can't thank you enough Rachel and I can't wait to tell
our family of these two marvellous ancestors!

Helen
Hollinshead, Lockett, Downing, Taylor, Symcock,
Jackson, Leighton, Dodd, Boardman, Dean & Kinsey (Staffordshire)
Muddle, Hartshorne, Dickenson, Humphries, Ensbey,
Dwyer, Brindley, Gully, Hall, Williams, Coombes,
O'Connor, Peters (Australia)

Offline Brisgirl

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #50 on: Saturday 17 September 05 04:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Helen,

Excellent!  Isn't it great that there's now so much genie material available online. 

My Elizabeth and Richard also ended up on Norfolk Island in 1790 and 1791 and were sent down to Van Diemen's Land in 1808 when the first settlement on Norfolk was abandoned.  So that's how your Hugh and Charlotte ended up in Tasmania!

Elizabeth and Richard co-habited on Norfolk for fourteen years and married in Hobart in 1810.  The local newspaper, the Derwent Star, actually commented on this marriage, saying that it verified "the old adage 'better late than never'"! 

As for the record of Hugh and Charlotte's marriage, I would have expected it to come up on the NSW BDM index (Norfolk Island was part of the colony and records for the island go back to 1790):

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=marriages

The fact that it doesn't seem to be there suggests that, like Elizabeth and Richard, they co-habitated on Norfolk and married in Tasmania. 

If an individual has submitted marriage information with the IGI, you can take that with a grain of salt.  I only trust the extracted records on the IGI for reasonable accuracy.  A submitter may have assumed the marriage date based on any children the couple had around that time. 

Two records pop up on the NSW BDM index for Charlotte Simpson (one with Hugh) for children (the same child?) born 1804 and 1805 (I did a 1790-1810 search):

V18041540 1A/1804,  SIMPSON  WILLIAM D,  -- ,  CHARLOTTE     
V1805117 4A/1805,  SIMPSON  WILLIAM,  HUGH,  CHARLOTTE 

On the Tasmanian Birth index there's the following:

Elizabeth McGinnis
Parents: Hugh / Charlotte Simpson
Date: 1808
Place: Tasmania
Reference No: 44

No doubt this is your Elizabeth who married William Gulley.  It's not that surprising that she was only 14-15 at the time of her marriage, many girls were married off young.  There was a serious lack of women in Tasmania at the time.  My own ancestor, Ann Burrows, was married off at just 12 years of age to a 40-year-old ex-convict in 1812!

A quote from a contemporary about the youthfulness of Tasmania's married women:

"They [ie. the Norfolk Islanders] brought with them many young lads and maidens, these last so eagerly sought in a community where there were eight men to every woman.  The Norfolk ladies were soon in marriage, as were the girls who came out from England in the first two ships.  The Norfolk girls seemed mature at fourteen and many of them were married at that age or younger.  They were used to an open-air life and were fed in a land of prodigal richness."

Poor girls!

The information about Charlotte on the Lady Juliana website seems correct as the compiler has used excellent sources (see the bottom of the webpage). 

Cheers, Rachel
Hewson (Dublin); Beacom (Co. Tyrone), Beer (Devon); Perry (Warwickshire); Tanner (Wiltshire); Mostyn Owen (Shropshire & Wales); Coles (Somerset & London); Fox (Cornwall); Peirce (Monmouth); Tolson (Yorkshire); Haigh (Yorkshire); Lunn (Yorkshire); Neill (Co. Down); Davies (Shropshire); Dryden (Roxburgh); McVane (Roxburgh); Lillico (Roxburgh); Symington (Roxburgh); Dickson (Roxburgh).

Offline Brisgirl

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #51 on: Saturday 17 September 05 05:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Helen,

I just found Hugh and Charlotte's marriage on the Tasmanian BDM index:

Groom: Hugh Maginnis
Bride: Charlotte Hall
Date of Marriage: 16 July 1810
Place: Tasmania
Reference No: 56

And Charlotte's death:

Name: Charlotte McGinnis
Date of Death: 31 December 1828
Age at Death: 61
Spouse: Hugh
Place: Tasmania
Reference No: 1869

And quite possibly Hugh's as well:

Name: Hugh McGuinness
Date of Death: ?? Jan 1841
Age at Death: 71
Place: Tasmania
Reference No: 744


Cheers, Rachel
Hewson (Dublin); Beacom (Co. Tyrone), Beer (Devon); Perry (Warwickshire); Tanner (Wiltshire); Mostyn Owen (Shropshire & Wales); Coles (Somerset & London); Fox (Cornwall); Peirce (Monmouth); Tolson (Yorkshire); Haigh (Yorkshire); Lunn (Yorkshire); Neill (Co. Down); Davies (Shropshire); Dryden (Roxburgh); McVane (Roxburgh); Lillico (Roxburgh); Symington (Roxburgh); Dickson (Roxburgh).

Offline Brisgirl

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 17 September 05 08:06 BST (UK) »
Hi Helen,

I just thought of looking up any possible children for Charlotte Hall and another child (again with two entries) has appeared in the NSW BDM index ...

V18021059 1A/1802,  HALL  JOHN, -- , CHARLOTTE
V180231 4A/1802,  HALL  JOHN,  HUGH,  CHARLOTTE 

I assume both John and brother William were born on Norfolk, with sister Elizabeth born later in Tasmania.

Regards, Rachel
Hewson (Dublin); Beacom (Co. Tyrone), Beer (Devon); Perry (Warwickshire); Tanner (Wiltshire); Mostyn Owen (Shropshire & Wales); Coles (Somerset & London); Fox (Cornwall); Peirce (Monmouth); Tolson (Yorkshire); Haigh (Yorkshire); Lunn (Yorkshire); Neill (Co. Down); Davies (Shropshire); Dryden (Roxburgh); McVane (Roxburgh); Lillico (Roxburgh); Symington (Roxburgh); Dickson (Roxburgh).

Offline Shadrach

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Re: Australian Lookups Offer - NSW, Vic, Tas, WA
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 17 September 05 09:12 BST (UK) »
The story just gets more and more fascinating.
It's great to hear that you had ancestors on
Norfolk at the same time - they would have
known each other and what would they have
thought if they knew we would be chatting on
a magic thing called the Internet?

According to Sian Rees Charlotte took up with
John Thomas Doidge after he came aboard ship
in Cape Town and, if I am reading it correctly,
they had a child on arrival in Sydney.   John
Doidge went to Norfolk as a Superindentent and
he and Charlotte were together for several years.
Is it possible that the father of some of her
children was John Doidge?

Perhaps John went back to England or died and
Charlotte took up with Hugh McGinnis.

Incidentally, my grandson is name Hugh!

Helen 
Hollinshead, Lockett, Downing, Taylor, Symcock,
Jackson, Leighton, Dodd, Boardman, Dean & Kinsey (Staffordshire)
Muddle, Hartshorne, Dickenson, Humphries, Ensbey,
Dwyer, Brindley, Gully, Hall, Williams, Coombes,
O'Connor, Peters (Australia)