15th Regiment of Foot, Ireland - Thomas JACKSON

[fionnghal]

hi folks,
i'm trying .. in vain it seems ..  to track down the Irish birth c.1801 of a Catherine JACKSON, daughter of Thomas JACKSON and Elspet INGRAM

Thomas & Elspeth married in Aberdeen in 10 September 1798

but Thomas JACKSON was serving in the 15th Regiment of Foot serving in Ireland in and around 1801 when daughter Catherine was born. 

if anyone can advise me as to how i could access records for the 15th of Foot in the hope that i can find out where exactly htey were at the time it would be a great help in demolishing this stone wall i've been bashing my head off. 

on this occasion at least, his wife has obviously been living with the regiment.

we assume he was with the regiment at some point in and around 1798 - 1802, perhaps longer.

2 further daughters were born to them but christened in Aberdeen in 1803 & 1807 so i can only assume that he'd left the regiment some time after 1801. 

by 1807, he's recorded as a labourer on the Baptism entry of dau. Elizabeth - Baptised 2nd Feb 1807 in Aberdeen

any guidance on this family and regiment would be gratefully accepted

thanks in advance
le durachd :-)
fionnghal

[Ticker]

Hi fionnghal

Sorry we haven't been able to help you so far on this one. 

Have you made any progress,  or do you have any further details that could help someone to find what you are looking for?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes 

Ticker

[fionnghal]

Nothing much, i'm afraid.  I’m blundering around in a dark bricked up tunnel!     I’ve tried A2A at
<http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp>  but, although there are a few records referring to the 15th, nothing about a Thomas Jackson. 

i found his marriage lines .. funny spelling and all 
Extract of an entry in an OLD PAROCHIAL REGISTER
Parish of Aberdeen, County of Aberdeen.   Register of Proclamations of Banns and Marriages
“1798 Sept 10th Thos Jackson and Elspet Ingram
Upon the 10th day of September One Thousand Seven Hundred and Ninty Eight By the Revd Mr Wiliam Blake Minister of St James Chapel in Aberdeen were lawfully Married in the said Chapel after due proclamation of Banns Thomas Jackson Soldier in the 15th Regt of Foot and Elspet Ingram in Aberdeen Daughter of the Deceast William Ingram late labourer in the parish of Bellie.   In presence of these Witnesses Patrick Wead Soldier in said Regiment and Elizabeth Ray Residenter in Aberdeen"

Her records were easily enough found. 
Someone kindly sent me the main movements of the 15th, and they do seem to have been in Ireland c.1800-1802 but exactly where is the question.  In the end, it may not be important because even if Irish records had existed there in some parish record, they’d probably have perished with almost all the rest in 1922. 

We haven’t even worked out if he was Aberdonian or, a Yorkshire man  who ended up in Aberdeen with the 15th - which was a Yorkshire regiment.
Regimental Rolls can apparently be viewed on request at the PRO, but i just get lost going round in ever-decreasing circles on that site.
What i have observed however, is that the name Jackson was commoner in Yorkshire and Lancs than other parts of England and very uncommon in Scotland, although the name has had a small presence in Aberdeen for some 100s of years. That was just an interesting observation; it didn’t help me find him.  If he was of a soldier family, he might have been born anywhere.   

Interestingly, we find an earlier Thomas Jackson marrying in Aberdeen and he too, was a member of a Yorkshire regiment.  He could just be our Thomas’s father but that is a long shot and improvable to date.   We’ve found no children for him, which isn’t surprising as he probably had each one in a different country, depending on where he was serving!

This earlier couple are:
“in Aberdeen, 12th Nov. 1753, Thos. Jackson, soldier in Capt Master's co. & Beauclerke's Regiment and Janet Snowie.” 

i found an Aberdeen burial:
Thomas Jackson, abode – O Abd; 83yo labourer; PR O/M; bur 22 Jan 1835
This is the ONLY Thos J. burial i could find in Aberdeen but that doesn’t mean there weren’t others.
If he's ours, he'd have been b.c.1852 which could be right for the earlier couple plus,
Our Thomas Jackson is recorded, on his other 2 daughter’s bapt lines, as being a labourer [which matches this death] – he’s obviously out of the army and settled/resettled in Aberdeen.  That ties in with finding that the 15th had disbanded in 1802
This date of death also ties in with him not making it to the 1841 census. 
so that lot does look a mite hopeful  if unprovable 

but. none of which has helped us track down his birth, or his daughter Catherine’s, and they’re the critical forebears 

I’m just  200yrs too late enquiring 

thanks for asking, Ticker 
le durachd
fionnghal

[Valda]

Have you tried the overseas birth registers at the Family Records Centre or at 1837online? The army birth regimental registers go back to 1761, though the majority of entries begin nearer the C19th. If the baby was baptised by an army chaplain evidence may be in these registers.

Regards

Valda

[fionnghal]

no, i havn't had much experience of that site.  i'll have a look.  thanks for that, Valda   


le dùrachd
Fionnghal

[millybobs]

Just came across your post via Google search.  As it's over two years old, you may well have resolved your Thomas jackson mystery, but if not, perhaps this info on the 15th Foot might help.  Most of it is taken from the book "The East Yorkshire Regiment (The 15th Regiment of Foot)" by A J Barker (Leo Cooper Ltd., London, 1971), pp 59 - 60.
"In November 1796 the Regiment returned to England [from service in the West Indies] - that is to say a cadre of 54 officers and men returned.  By then the total strength of the 15th was a pitiful 303, of whom 250 luckless individuals were transferred to the 45th Foot to soldier on, and mostly die, in the West Indies.  Once in Britain the first task was to recruit men to bring the Regiment up to its authorised establishment of 1,000 all ranks, and no doubt the NCOs of the 15th spent a good deal of 1797 tramping round fairs and frequenting pubs trying to convince young men that their fortune depended on their taking the red coat.  To help fill the gaps the government of the day released criminals on condition they would become soldiers, and actively encouraged kidnapping and press gangs, as well as asking no questions and giving free commissions to men who raised a certain number of recruits.  Patriotism does not seem to have been a strong influence and with such methods it is hardly surprising that discipline had to be harshly enforced.  .....
Promise of a substantial bounty [eventually] lured many men to the colours, and in 1799, when 1,538 militiamen volunteered for the 15th, a second battalion of the Regiment was formed.  This was a short-lived innovation, for when a truce between the combatants, known as the Peace of Amiens, was patched up in 1801 the British Army was reduced and the 2nd Battalion of the Regiment disbanded. [The 1st battalion continued to exist and eventually became the East Yorkshire Rgt and later the Yorkshire Rgt).
By this time a certain Napoleon Bonaparte had become the First Consul of France, and in 1803 his ambitions brought France to war again with Britain.  At this time the 15th were in Ireland, and remained there until February 1805 when orders were recieved for it to return to the West Indies [Barbados, Martinique, Guadeloupe and Grenada - 1809 and Guadeloupe agagin 1810.  In 1812 they were in St Kitts, then back in the W Indies 1814 until posted to Nova Scotia in 1817, returning to England 1821].  Meanwhile, however, a 2nd battalion had been reformed for home defence duties and stationed in Scarborough.  (This battalion saw no service outside Britain, unless Jersey - where the battalion went in 1811 and where it was disbanded three years later - is counted as overseas service.)"
My great grandfather enlisted in the 1/15th in Bath in 1859 after enlisting in the Somersetshire Militia.  He stayed in for over 30 years and served in Ireland, New Brunswick and the Channel Is. as well as in England.  He spent a number of those years at the Regimental Depot at Beverley in E Yorks.  He wasn't a Yorkshireman, though, but was born in Bath in Somerset.  He married an Irish-Canadian whilst serving in Canada and they had children born in Cork, Aldershot and Sheffield as well as Beverley, as they were continually on the move.
I'm afraid none of this helps directly with your Thomas Jackson but hopefully you'll find the background info of interest.
Paul

[fionnghal]

Paul, that was fascinating.  I also read a bit on someone's on-line diary on his 15th Foot forebear.  It makes interesting reading at  http://chrispatonscotland.tripod.com/id45.html    His soldier was in the 2nd battalion and served in Ireland, like mine, during that critical period 1799-1801/2 - critical to my Thomas Jackson as that's when he was there fathering our forebear, Catherine.  That ties in with the dates of the 2nd batt. being formed but there is a slight variation from your book as the 2nd batt was in Ireland during most of that that period apparently with the odd sortie in England - perhaps on evangelizing missions -  according the this other guy's research anyway.  He accessed the docs at the PRO in Kew, lucky devil.

The http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ site found me lots of soldiering Thos Jacksons, some over the very period that my Thomas served, but none of precisely the right date or the right regt!  They look like they could have been very useful records too.  Of course, our man may have been in a different regiment prior to joining the 15th or maybe he was one of the hapless victims of the zealous press-gangs you mention

I'd love to be able to visit the PRO in Kew - there are a number of forebears awaiting that miracle.  I'm sure I'd find a lot of very relevant and eye-opening information

thanks again for your info
le durachd
fionnghal

[fionnghal]

aha!  i'll need to modify that a bit, Paul.  Thomas was already in the 15th Foot when he married on 10 Sept 1798 so, he wasn't amongst the 1799 recruits, However, he was in Aberdeen - probably keeping a watch on all us barbarians!      Does that suggest then, that he was not in the 2nd Batt?  See, i have no way of deciding.  the other researcher's info was so convincing and coincided with my Thomas's that i assumed he was also the 2nd batt!

On the FindMyPast site I'd a look at the military records, and so far the only mention of an appropriate Thos Jackson was in the Peninsula Medal Roll 1793-1814 JACKSON, Thomas 2ND FOOT GUARDS
however, all it has under particular of clasps: Egypt J.S.V. and that he had 4 of them.  However, that confrontation appears to have been c.1807-14 so, it must be a different Thomas even though it is the 2nd Foot.  maybe the Guards were slightly different and the name Thomas is heck of a popular.

cheers
le durachd
fionnghal

[millybobs]

Fionnghal
I think the 15th Foot was in Dublin in 1800 - both 1st and 2nd Battalions.  If you take a look at http://youroldbooksand maps.co.uk/british-army-list-1800.html and at 'The British Army List 1800' and click on the right-hand screen shot it just happens to show the 15th Foot record!   I believe these lists are available at Kew.  You could, of course, buy it but I don't believe they show 'other ranks', only officers, and I guess if your man's later occupation was 'labourer' he wasn't an officer. 
The main army barracks in Dublin was known simply as 'The Barracks' at the time (later the Royal Barracks and now the Collins Barracks). 
I was lucky enough to find my ancestor's service documents at Kew, but of course he was in the army much later.  I've looked on the catalogue for Thomas Jackson under WO97 but the only Jackson I could find for that period was a James Jackson (WO97/364/15 - if you put this in as a reference and 'Browse from here' you'll be able to confirm).  Thomas would only be in this series if he received a pension anyway, which he would only have done had he been invalided out.  Enlistment before 1806 was technically for life, so I'm not sure where that leaves you. 
I don't think the Thos Jackson in the 2nd Foot Guards is your man - the 2nd Foot is a different regiment from the 15th Foot - the 2nd Battalion 15th Foot is what you're after - it's often written 2/15th in shorthand.
Perhaps you should try and come up good on the Lottery and pay a visit to TNA at Kew - I'm no expert but they have so much information down there that you may well turn up something.  Anyway, good luck with your searches.
Paul