Merchant Navy Fatalities Death Certificates

[kevinf2349]

Hello again,

I have a distant relative who was a merchant seaman and he was killed when his ship was hit by a torpedo during WW1. The ship was in Norwegian waters but was flagged as a UK ship sailing from London.

My questions are:
1) Would the death be registered in the UK? (I don't find it in the GRO records)
2) If it is registered in a different UK agency, where would that be?

I know I got a copy of my Great grandfather's death certificate, who was killed in France in 1915 but I can't remember how or where I got it!

How can I get a copy of the certificate?

Thank you in advance for any assistance that you can give.

Kindest regards
Kevin

[Andy J2022]

If he was aboard a UK registered ship I would have expected his death to be registered at the GRO. How have you checked the GRO records? If you used an intermediate site like Ancestry or FindMyPast you need to be aware that some overseas deaths are recorded in a different series of records, and you may need to check them specifically.
For example on FindMyPast look in the collection entitled  British Armed Forces and Overseas Deaths and Burials.
On Ancestry check the collection UK, World War I and World War II Shipping and Seamen Rolls of Honour, 1914-1945 - this won't give you the reference for the GRO registration but it will confirm that his death was acknowledged by the British authorities and thus there will be a GRO death registration, albeit maybe a post dated supplementary entry.

https://roll-of-honour.com/Databases/MercantileMarineCasualtiesWW1/index.html

Details of the deaths of over 15,500 merchant seafarers due to enemy action in the First World War can be found on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) website: cwgc.org

This from the National Marotime Museum: "The CWGC database does not cover all deaths on British-registered vessels, so it may be necessary to consult official log books (see above) and other documents submitted to the Registry of Shipping and Seamen. The NMM holds the following records of deaths extracted from log books of British-registered vessels:

    Monthly Returns of Deaths of Seamen (GR160 forms) 1916-1989 numbered with the prefix RSS/A. These provide brief details of the cause of death and the relevant vessel. They mainly record deaths resulting from marine causes or accidents in ports, but deaths resulting from enemy attacks on fishing boats and other small vessels are sometimes included.
    Returns of Births and Deaths (B&D1 forms) 1914-1919 numbered with the prefix RSS/B. These records are arranged by month and then alphabetically by the vessel name. They provide more detailed information on the circumstances and sometimes include reports from medical staff, police, etc. There are also B&D1 forms recording births and deaths among passengers on merchant vessels 1914-1919 numbered with the prefix RSS/C.

Registers of births, marriages and deaths of seamen and passengers (including foreign nationals) maintained by the Registry of Shipping and Seamen are in the BT 334 series at TNA. For the period 1910-1918 there are also registers recording births and deaths reported to one of the national Registrars General. The TNA research guide on births, deaths and marriages at sea (Births, marriages and deaths at sea or abroad) provides guidance on the relevant records at Kew and links to resources on the Findmypast website."

[kevinf2349]

Andy,

Thank you for the reply. I checked on the GRO website for his (and my great grandfathers DC) but couldn't find either one. I know I have a copy of my great grandfather's DC. It has a reference number consisting of a group of 3 digits (n nn nnn) but I can't recall where I ordered it from (this was back in 2008).

The merchant seaman was definitely killed due to enemy action and is recognised on the Tower Hill memorial.

Thank you for the pointers.
Kindest regards
Kevin

[Andy J2022]

Kevin,
You should check the overseas deaths collection on FindMyPast if you can, because it reflects a different section of the GRO indexes which, as far as I am aware, do not form part of the searchable GRO website.
See this guidance note from the GRO: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/images/CG6_1.pdf

Overseas death registrations are also available on microfiche in the libraries around the UK listed below and in LDS Family History Centres.

   Tthe Library of Birmingham
    Bridgend Local and Family History Centre
    the City of Westminster Archives Centre
    Manchester Central Library
    Newcastle City Library
    Plymouth Central Library
    The British Library (you’ll need to register first)

[HMac]

In the circumstances of his death, no death certificate would have been issued. Merchant seamen's deaths during the World Wars were recorded by different authorities — the GRO system (births, marriages, deaths registered in England and Wales) applied only to deaths on land.

The recording of Merchant Navy deaths at sea was the responsibility of the master of the ship and was recorded in the ship's Official Log Book, Casualty and Death List. Certainly, problems arose with the recording of casualties at sea when a ship was lost with all hands. In these circumstances the owners would submit the copy of the crew list that had been retained on shore (the 'Red Copy') to the RGSS — these lists were then used for the registration of the deaths of the crews. We can still see today the problems that have arisen from the non-commemoration of some merchant seamen missed by the relevant authorities and also the CWGC. In these cases, evidence has still to be provided that a seaman was actually lost at sea and, indeed, that the loss was attributed to enemy action or increased war risk.

The fact that he is commemorated by the CWGC means there is no doubt that his death was recognised as a war casualty.

Looking at Andy's link above it appears that route may give you some answers but by no means will every merchant seaman's death at sea be recorded against a ship name.

Hugh