Author Topic: John Early c1800 lookup request  (Read 164 times)

Offline earley-bird

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John Early c1800 lookup request
« on: Thursday 19 February 26 13:54 GMT (UK) »
Dear Rootschatters  I am stuck and really need your help.

I haven’t  been able to take my Paternal line Early back further than 1846 since I first started searching in 2005 21 years ago !.

Unfortunately my Surname over the past 200+ years has frequently been mis-spelt as Early, Earley, Earle and even Hurly , making research challenging to say the least.

I have a Certificate of Marriage between John Early and Sarah Anne Bruce July 12th 1846 living at Bunhill Row St lukes Mddsx . John’s profession is noted as a tobaconist.  His DOB is listed as 1825 on a later Census.

On the Marriage Certificate it states that the name of John’s  father is also John Early and he was a Wharfinger and this is as far as I have been able to get. 

Brain Fog and rapidly deteriorating eyesight (T2 Diabetes ) is making research extremely challenging for me now and I would dearly love to discover something about John Early the Father if it is at all possible. I imagine that as John Early (Son) was born in 1825 his Father John Early (Wharfinger ) would likely have been born around or before  the 1800 .

I would be very grateful for any helpful suggestions or advice that you can offer
Whitchurch, Westminster / Buckinghamshire
Cooper,     Westminster
Pollard     Surrey
Earley,  Holborn London
Bruce,  London
Kangeisser  London
Lawlor, Widnes Lancashire
Hagan   Widnes Lancashire

All Census Lookups are are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only, I support copyright, a Wife, 2x children  a dobie, 2 x cats, a Tawny owl. and several mice if the drop

Offline ColC

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 19 February 26 16:13 GMT (UK) »
Just for info. Although the place of birth and occupation for John are not as posted, below is the 1851 census, the mother maiden name is correct on the registration for the two boys.

1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG6H-5M6?lang=en

Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline earley-bird

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 19 February 26 17:37 GMT (UK) »
yes that is definitely the right John Early and spouse Sarah Ann Bruce.

So what I am hoping to discover is anything about John's Father ...also a John Early. a Wharfinger according to the Marriage Certificate.
Whitchurch, Westminster / Buckinghamshire
Cooper,     Westminster
Pollard     Surrey
Earley,  Holborn London
Bruce,  London
Kangeisser  London
Lawlor, Widnes Lancashire
Hagan   Widnes Lancashire

All Census Lookups are are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only, I support copyright, a Wife, 2x children  a dobie, 2 x cats, a Tawny owl. and several mice if the drop

Offline QueenoftheWest

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 19 February 26 19:33 GMT (UK) »
You did not mention this in your post, but are you aware that John was a Catholic? At least, he baptised his children Catholic, and he and his wife Sarah are down as such on their workhouse admission record.

His sons Edwin and Alfred were baptised at the Catholic church of St. Mary Moorfields. A useful part of Catholic baptisms is that they provide the names of the sponsors (i.e. godparents), who are often relatives of the parents. In my experience (my father is Irish so I've seen a lot of Catholic baptism records), the godparents were often siblings or siblings-in-law to the parents, or occasionally cousins.

Edwin's godparents were John Erley and Margaret Derry, whilst Alfred's were John Earley and Ann McCarthy. Given that John is unlikely to have had a brother with the same name (although not impossible), could this perhaps be John's father? I don't usually see grandfathers as godparents, though.

Interestingly, there appears to have been a third son born to John and Sarah, many years after their first two. In 1872, a two-month-old child, Arthur William Earley, was baptised to John Earley and Sarah Ann Earley, formerly Bruce. The godparents were Edwin (unusual for someone to be made godparent to their own brother, but there was a large age gap) and Johanna Earley. Sadly, Arthur died in infancy.

Queenie  :)


Offline Neale1961

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 19 February 26 23:37 GMT (UK) »
The census shows your John Early born abt 1827 in Southwark/ Bermondsey, Surrey.

Considering Queenie’s previously mentioned Roman Catholic religion for this family, do you think that the EARLY family originated in Ireland?
I can see in 1841 census, a couple of Earley / Hurley families living in the Bermondsey / Southwark area, living and working around the docks, where parents were Irish and children were born locally.

Possible ----
1841 census Southwark HURLEY family
Father John is a labourer. Son John born abt 1828
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQV1-Z9M?lang=en
    ('Hurley' and 'Earley' sound much the same when spoken.)


Regarding Edwin’s godparents:- I think Margaret Derry could be Margaret Lavinia DERRY 45, with Johanna Bruce 13 and Emma Bruce 10, in the 1851 census for Shoreditch. (Johanna and Emma were younger sisters of Sarah Anne.)

I see your Bruce family in the 1841 census. Was the father James from Scotland or Ireland? It is not clear on the 1841 census.
I assume you have all the details you need for the Bruces.


I can’t see the original marriage record for Sarah Anne Bruce to John Early (1846).
Who were the witnesses at that marriage?
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
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Offline earley-bird

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #5 on: Friday 20 February 26 13:47 GMT (UK) »
You did not mention this in your post, but are you aware that John was a Catholic? At least, he baptised his children Catholic, and he and his wife Sarah are down as such on their workhouse admission record.

His sons Edwin and Alfred were baptised at the Catholic church of St. Mary Moorfields. A useful part of Catholic baptisms is that they provide the names of the sponsors (i.e. godparents), who are often relatives of the parents. In my experience (my father is Irish so I've seen a lot of Catholic baptism records), the godparents were often siblings or siblings-in-law to the parents, or occasionally cousins.

Edwin's godparents were John Erley and Margaret Derry, whilst Alfred's were John Earley and Ann McCarthy. Given that John is unlikely to have had a brother with the same name (although not impossible), could this perhaps be John's father? I don't usually see grandfathers as godparents, though.

Interestingly, there appears to have been a third son born to John and Sarah, many years after their first two. In 1872, a two-month-old child, Arthur William Earley, was baptised to John Earley and Sarah Ann Earley, formerly Bruce. The godparents were Edwin (unusual for someone to be made godparent to their own brother, but there was a large age gap) and Johanna Earley. Sadly, Arthur died in infancy.

Queenie  :)
Firstly a big thank you for responding to my request for help and an apology for the delay in responding to your post.
You did not mention this in your post, but are you aware that John was a Catholic? At least, he baptised his children Catholic, and he and his wife Sarah are down as such on their workhouse admission record.
Yes all of my Paternal and Maternal lines are Catholic.
Its almost certain that at some point the Early’s or Earley’s came over from Ireland looking for work in the London or Liverpool Docks .
Edwin's godparents were John Erley and Margaret Derry, whilst Alfred's were John Earley and Ann McCarthy. Given that John is unlikely to have had a brother with the same name (although not impossible), could this perhaps be John's father?
Now this is very interesting as it is thefirst record that I have seen in connection with my Earlys that mentions an Irish spelling of Early ie Erly.
I have just discovered an extensive research  on the Irish History of the name Early by a chap called Stephen whose Surname I have been unable to discover. I hope that it is acceptable to post his URL on here ? https://shorturl.at/RZLO6
Unfortunately  I do not have access to online Baptism  records,.. other than through one of the Geneology sites  which sadly I can no longer afford .

On John and Sarah’s Marriage certificate, John’s Father is noted as John Early, but not as a witness.? I think it is  therefore reasonable to assume that  perhaps he could not present at their Marriage and might posssibly have been dead , abroad, or just unable to attend for some other reason due to work or health etc.
Interestingly, there appears to have been a third son born to John and Sarah, many years after their first two. In 1872, a two-month-old child, Arthur William Earley, was baptised to John Earley and Sarah Ann Earley, formerly Bruce. The godparents were Edwin (unusual for someone to be made godparent to their own brother, but there was a large age gap) and Johanna Earley. Sadly, Arthur died in infancy
 yes I have previously found 2x records of a Birth of a child named Alfred, one in 1849 and another in 1851 but no further record of either. i had not come across the late birth of William though so thank you for that source

  At the moment I just don’t see a way of progressing this search further, which is why I am hoping for some experienced advice and suggestions .
Whitchurch, Westminster / Buckinghamshire
Cooper,     Westminster
Pollard     Surrey
Earley,  Holborn London
Bruce,  London
Kangeisser  London
Lawlor, Widnes Lancashire
Hagan   Widnes Lancashire

All Census Lookups are are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only, I support copyright, a Wife, 2x children  a dobie, 2 x cats, a Tawny owl. and several mice if the drop

Offline earley-bird

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #6 on: Friday 20 February 26 14:03 GMT (UK) »
The census shows your John Early born abt 1827 in Southwark/ Bermondsey, Surrey.

Considering Queenie’s previously mentioned Roman Catholic religion for this family, do you think that the EARLY family originated in Ireland?
I can see in 1841 census, a couple of Earley / Hurley families living in the Bermondsey / Southwark area, living and working around the docks, where parents were Irish and children were born locally.

Possible ----
1841 census Southwark HURLEY family
Father John is a labourer. Son John born abt 1828
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQV1-Z9M?lang=en
    ('Hurley' and 'Earley' sound much the same when spoken.)


Regarding Edwin’s godparents:- I think Margaret Derry could be Margaret Lavinia DERRY 45, with Johanna Bruce 13 and Emma Bruce 10, in the 1851 census for Shoreditch. (Johanna and Emma were younger sisters of Sarah Anne.)

I see your Bruce family in the 1841 census. Was the father James from Scotland or Ireland? It is not clear on the 1841 census.
I assume you have all the details you need for the Bruces.


I can’t see the original marriage record for Sarah Anne Bruce to John Early (1846).
Who were the witnesses at that marriage?
Thank you for you interesting and detailed post ...some very interesting points for me to check .

Yes my Early/ Earley line almost certainly originated in Ireland but I have not yet found any record of their migration. The Liverpool Docks were a very important source of work for the Irish for many years. My late Grandfather John Gabriel Earley who worked in the London Docks frequently went up North to Liverpool docks for work  which is where he met his Wife C Lawlor (more Irish connections)
Witnesses to John and Sarahs Marriage were F Collins and Julie 'Kangeiser' ? indistinct.

I have not yet researched the Bruce line as I am more focused on trying to further my paternal line with the Earlys.

The Hurly connection is very interesting !...my late Father always insisted that there had been a Hurly in the past but I have never been able to discover it.  My name Earley has been constantly been mispelt for the past 75 years so it would not surprise me one bit. He also swore that his Father ,my Grandfather, had been one of 21 Children and that turned out to be correct. Between my GF and GM they had combined siblings of 33 !

Whitchurch, Westminster / Buckinghamshire
Cooper,     Westminster
Pollard     Surrey
Earley,  Holborn London
Bruce,  London
Kangeisser  London
Lawlor, Widnes Lancashire
Hagan   Widnes Lancashire

All Census Lookups are are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only, I support copyright, a Wife, 2x children  a dobie, 2 x cats, a Tawny owl. and several mice if the drop

Offline QueenoftheWest

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #7 on: Friday 20 February 26 14:14 GMT (UK) »
I can’t see the original marriage record for Sarah Anne Bruce to John Early (1846).
Who were the witnesses at that marriage?

The record has been muddled up with another on Anc*, it is actually on page 135 of 165. The witnesses were F Collins and Julia Harrison.

Considering Queenie’s previously mentioned Roman Catholic religion for this family, do you think that the EARLY family originated in Ireland?

I too was wondering whether the family were Irish, specifically whether John had actually been born in Ireland and then migrated to England with his family as a small child. If so, it will be very difficult to trace his line back further, as Irish baptism records can be very patchy depending on the parish, especially when going back this far into the 1800s.

Was Sarah Ann Bruce from a Catholic family? I ask because a 38-year-old Sarah Ann Earley, formerly Bruce, was baptised into Catholicism on 23 July 1869 in Islington. Only problem is her father is down as John Bruce (not James as on the marriage certificate); her mother is Margaret White.

Queenie  :)

Offline ColC

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Re: John Early c1800 lookup request
« Reply #8 on: Friday 20 February 26 14:50 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the census returns below it looks likely that John Earley was born in Surrey.

1851 born 1827 Bermondsey, Surrey

1861 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2ML-Y2Q3?lang=en

born 1826 Southwark, Surrey

1881 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-DV3Z?lang=en

born 1825 Southwark, Surrey

Possible John Early senior born 1801 Ireland + Mary Early born 1811 Ireland
No other Early’s but many other names on return.

1841 Kent Street, St George, Kent Road, Southwark, Surrey.

Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.