Thomas Barnes, London, Lighterman

[Karen McDonald]

Hi everybody,

Bit of a long shot here, but does anybody out there have a Thomas Barnes, born 1881, occupation: lighterman (worked on barges on the Thames), living (probably) in the Limehouse area of London, in their tree?!

We have been trying to find out about him for years, as he features heavily in our family history. Genetically, if not on paper...

Background info:
My great-grandmother on the maternal side was, by all accounts, a bit of a character. She was married to my great-grandfather, and had 4 children. According to family history, though, only the first 2 children were fathered by my great-grandad. The other 2 children were fathered by the mysterious Mr Barnes.

It seems to be that this situation was not exactly a secret. My great-grandparents stayed together. I have no idea what great-grandad's view was of all this.

Anyway, my brother has been looking into this again, and has found a Thomas Barnes who lived close to my great-grandparents. This Mr B is the most likely candidate. In the 1911 census, he was living with his married sister, Louisa Gregory, together with her husband, Frederick, their little son & daughter, plus Matilda, younger sister of Thomas and Louisa, in Limehouse, London. This Thomas Barnes is listed as a Casual Dock Labourer, is a similar age to my great-grandparents, and is single.
The geographic proximity to my great-grandparents' home is interesting, to say the least.

My brother is unable to find this Thomas Barnes in the 1901 census.

We would love to find out a bit more about him. We probably won't ever be able to answer the burning questions we have about this interesting little relationship setup but if anyone does have this particular Mr Barnes in their tree, I would love to hear from you!

Thanks in advance,
Karen

[coombs]

Hi

Can I ask where Thomas Barnes says he was born in the 1911 census? Was he born in the Limehouse area, or just living there at the time of the 1911 census?

Out of the 2 children supposedly fathered by him, was one of them your direct grandparent, or was it one of the 2 elder children?

If he cannot be found in 1901 then it is possible he was away at sea during the census. Although the barges along British shores were supposed to be counted, like ships in British docks for censuses but maybe he was further afield at the time.

[Karen McDonald]

Hi

Can I ask where Thomas Barnes says he was born in the 1911 census? Was he born in the Limehouse area, or just living there at the time of the 1911 census?

Out of the 2 children supposedly fathered by him, was one of them your direct grandparent, or was it one of the 2 elder children?

If he cannot be found in 1901 then it is possible he was away at sea during the census. Although the barges along British shores were supposed to be counted, like ships in British docks for censuses but maybe he was further afield at the time.

Hi coombs,

Thanks for the reply.

- According to the 1911, every family member was born in Limehouse.

- My grandfather was one of the older 2 children. My mum's cousin is the son of one of the younger 2 children - and he would love to know more about his genetic grandad. 

Thanks,
Karen

[rosie99]

Both Louisa and Matilda name their father as Robert Barnes (deceased) when they marry. Matilda's marriage has fish curer as an occupation for him.

In 1881 there is just Thomas with his parents - father Robert is a fish curer.

In 1891 Thomas age 10 is with his parents Robert & Catherine in Limehouse, also sisters Louisa 8 and Harriet 2. 

In 1901 father Robert has died and Catherine is in Eastfield St with dtrs Louisa and Matilda. We at least know that he was not still living with his family 

[coombs]

I think Thomas Barnes birth was registered in Stepney in the last quarter of 1880, mother's maiden name Bishop. Vol 1C, page 457. So Catherine's maiden name was Bishop.

In 1881 Catherine Barnes says she was born Pimlico, London, but in 1891 she says Oxford, Oxfordshire. I think Oxford is correct. A Catherine Emily Bishop birth was registered in Oxford in 1856, mmn Wilkes. Catherine Emily Bishop wed Robert Barnes in 1878 in Limehouse, or Mile End.

I found Catherine in the 1861 census in Stepney aged 4 born Oxford, child of Thomas and Matilda Bishop. According to 1861, she had a brother born in Paddington, and another sibling born St George East about 1858. So Catherine grew up in London.  Ironically her mother Matilda Bishop (Nee Wilkes if you go by Catherine's 1856 birth reg) was born in Bletchingdon, Oxfordshire, where some of my lot came from. Small world.

[Karen McDonald]

Both Louisa and Matilda name their father as Robert Barnes (deceased) when they marry. Matilda's marriage has fish curer as an occupation for him.

In 1881 there is just Thomas with his parents - father Robert is a fish curer.

In 1891 Thomas age 10 is with his parents Robert & Catherine in Limehouse, also sisters Louisa 8 and Harriet 2. 

In 1901 father Robert has died and Catherine is in Eastfield St with dtrs Louisa and Matilda. We at least know that he was not still living with his family 

Rosie, that's brilliant, thanks!   

The info on the parents is a big help.

I shall pass that on to my Big Bruv straight away.

Thanks again,
Karen

[Karen McDonald]

I think Thomas Barnes birth was registered in Stepney in the last quarter of 1880, mother's maiden name Bishop. Vol 1C, page 457. So Catherine's maiden name was Bishop.

In 1881 Catherine Barnes says she was born Pimlico, London, but in 1891 she says Oxford, Oxfordshire. I think Oxford is correct. A Catherine Emily Bishop birth was registered in Oxford in 1856, mmn Wilkes. Catherine Emily Bishop wed Robert Barnes in 1878 in Limehouse, or Mile End.

I found Catherine in the 1861 census in Stepney aged 4 born Oxford, child of Thomas and Matilda Bishop. According to 1861, she had a brother born in Paddington, and another sibling born St George East about 1858. So Catherine grew up in London.  Ironically her mother Matilda Bishop (Nee Wilkes if you go by Catherine's 1856 birth reg) was born in Bletchingdon, Oxfordshire, where some of my lot came from. Small world.

Thanks very much indeed for that, coombs! 

It is indeed a small world sometimes. (I have to admit that I don't think I have heard of Bletchingdon.  )

Thanks again,
Karen

[jorose]

If he was a Lighterman (unclear if you have confirmation of this), there may be information from the Company on him:

https://watermenscompany.com/heritage/

[Karen McDonald]

If he was a Lighterman (unclear if you have confirmation of this), there may be information from the Company on him:

https://watermenscompany.com/heritage/

Hi Jo,

Thanks for that.

I had already had a quick look at the website. Nothing comes up when doing a search for "Barnes". They do have a research service, but it costs 50 squids, so we really need to be absolutely sure that this is "our" man first.

I have asked my Mum's cousin if he can remember anything else about Mr B. Maybe he might have something we can go on.

This was all so long ago and also so strange... We will probably never solve the mystery. But I haven't given up hope that someone might see this thread and realise that these Barnes' are in their tree and that they can enlighten us a little. Hope burns eternal 'n all that. 

All the best,
Karen