James Terry. B1849 in Brightling, Sussex. GRO birth record.

[Clarkey500]

Sorry - I have had something else to focus on the past few days!

Let's just get straight everything we know:

1850 - Supposed birth
1874 - Birth of son William Terry in Tunbridge Wells, Kent (Where Jane Ellen was born). May not be his biological son.
1876 - Married Jane Ellen Butcher
1878 - Birth of son Arthur Ernest Terry in Frant
1881 - Living in Frant
1884 - Wife Jane Ellen dies
1888 - Married Alice Frances Smithers in Tunbridge Wells
Why might he be returning to Tunbridge Wells to get married?
1889 - Birth of James George Terry in Frant (Baptised New Groombridge)
1891 - Living in Frant
1892 - Birth of Ethel Frances Terry in Frant
1895 - Birth of Percy Terry in Speldhurst
1899 - Birth of Fred Douglas Terry in Tunbridge Wells
1901 - Living in Tunbridge Wells

Arthur Skinner and Annie Smithers are witnesses to the marriage to Alice Smithers.
Annie would make sense as her sister.
Arthur Skinner needs to be identified.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

There's a clear candidate for Arthur Skinner

b c1859, Ashurst. Living in Speldhurst in 1881 & 1891. Married Martha Luckhurst. As a child lives with his grandparents Thomas and Ann. A baptism record suggests he's the illegitimate child of an Ann Skinner - who I;m having trouble tracing

There's no family link jumping out immediately - might just have been a friend

[0ctavia]

Jane Ellen was "Butcher", believe she made up a husband at baptism.

BUTCHER, JANE  ELLEN     mmn PEERLESS 
GRO Reference: 1851  S Quarter in TUNBRIDGE  Volume 05  Page 577

SS

Was that actually a thing?? - that single women with a child would sometimes make up a husband???
Wouldn't the vicar have picked up on that? Or was it common enough that they let it slide?

[0ctavia]

Sorry - I have had something else to focus on the past few days!

Let's just get straight everything we know:

1850 - Supposed birth
1874 - Birth of son William Terry in Tunbridge Wells, Kent (Where Jane Ellen was born). May not be his biological son.
1876 - Married Jane Ellen Butcher
1878 - Birth of son Arthur Ernest Terry in Frant
1881 - Living in Frant
1884 - Wife Jane Ellen dies
1888 - Married Alice Frances Smithers in Tunbridge Wells
Why might he be returning to Tunbridge Wells to get married?
1889 - Birth of James George Terry in Frant (Baptised New Groombridge)
1891 - Living in Frant
1892 - Birth of Ethel Frances Terry in Frant
1895 - Birth of Percy Terry in Speldhurst
1899 - Birth of Fred Douglas Terry in Tunbridge Wells
1901 - Living in Tunbridge Wells

Arthur Skinner and Annie Smithers are witnesses to the marriage to Alice Smithers.
Annie would make sense as her sister.
Arthur Skinner needs to be identified.

Not sure why James and Alice got married in Tunbridge Wells. Alice was born in Deptford, Kent so, maybe that had something to do with it.

Regarding Arthur Skinner. I've found out that Alice's mother was Ann Skinner. It is looking like Ann had a brother called Arthur although admittedly this is on someone else's tree on Ancestry and there are no documents as yet to back this up - but at least it would seem he was a relative of some kind.

On another subject completely, I notice at the bottom of your signature you mention GEDmatch. If I understand correctly, someone can upload their dna info to that website. Did you find it worth it?

[0ctavia]

There's a clear candidate for Arthur Skinner

b c1859, Ashurst. Living in Speldhurst in 1881 & 1891. Married Martha Luckhurst. As a child lives with his grandparents Thomas and Ann. A baptism record suggests he's the illegitimate child of an Ann Skinner - who I;m having trouble tracing

There's no family link jumping out immediately - might just have been a friend

It would seem that Arthur may be the brother of Ann Skinner who I now know is Alice's mother. Still searching. Thank you for taking an interest and helping :-)

[Clarkey500]

Regarding Arthur Skinner. I've found out that Alice's mother was Ann Skinner. It is looking like Ann had a brother called Arthur although admittedly this is on someone else's tree on Ancestry and there are no documents as yet to back this up - but at least it would seem he was a relative of some kind.

On another subject completely, I notice at the bottom of your signature you mention GEDmatch. If I understand correctly, someone can upload their dna info to that website. Did you find it worth it?

That would make sense about Arthur.

The benefits to having GEDmatch is that it gives you a wider pool of matches. You can also triangulate matches to identify which side of the family tree they would be on. Being able to identify the segments shared is also valuable for this.

I think your Terry problem could be explored by aligning DNA matches to sides of your family tree. I've uncovered who my mystery 3x great grandparents were. Only the dad's first name was fully accurate (as in birth name) on his son's birth certificate. They also decided to change their surname to Smith - not that helpful when they're from London. There's more to the story as it is quite a complex case.

If you can get the closest relative to James Terry to test, it would really help break down the matches into sides of your tree.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

There's a clear candidate for Arthur Skinner

b c1859, Ashurst. Living in Speldhurst in 1881 & 1891. Married Martha Luckhurst. As a child lives with his grandparents Thomas and Ann. A baptism record suggests he's the illegitimate child of an Ann Skinner - who I;m having trouble tracing

There's no family link jumping out immediately - might just have been a friend

It would seem that Arthur may be the brother of Ann Skinner who I now know is Alice's mother. Still searching. Thank you for taking an interest and helping :-)

Given Arthur was b c1859, with mother Ann,  and Alice was b c1865, I think it more likely they're half siblings

The confusion may come from the fact that  Ann Skinner Smithers' mother is also Ann, and Arthur lived with Granny

[jonwarrn]

Is it possible this is him in 1871?
James Terry, 26, Ag Lab, born Brighton, living in Rotherfield
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFDS-297

or here
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5904f4dbe9379091b105e7d6

Supposedly married to Frances, 26, born Croydon, Surrey.

Rotherfield is close to Frant
Age is similar to that in 1881.
Could Brighton be a mistake for Brightling? He doesn't seem to match anyone in any other census (there is one born Brighton circa 1839 and one born circa 1848)

A couple of James Terry - Frances marriages before 1871, but neither seems to be right.
And no further sign of the couple?

[jonwarrn]

At Lealands in Rotherfield in 1871
Next dwelling is William Sumner (farmer) at Lealands Farm
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5904f4dbe9379091b105e7d6

This farm may perhaps have straddled more than one parish.
William Sumner died in 1884, probate for him, late of Rotherfield.
The newspapers meanwhile describe the farm as Lealand’s Farm, Groombridge.

From the 1881 census TS, James Terry was at Sewage Farm Cottage in the parish of Frant
And is in the area of Broadwater Forest and Groombridge.

So I guess he may possibly be the James Terry, labourer, employed at the Sewage Farm, Groombridge, giving evidence against some potentially naughty people reported in the South Eastern Advertiser, 24 March 1883 (I don't have access)

Is he then the James Terry,  labourer, in the employ of the resident engineer of the Tunbridge Wells Commissioners, residing in Groombridge (possibly Southern Sewage Farm) and maybe giving evidence (?) in August 1870 (Surrey Gazette)

Again in 1877, James Terry, of Broadwater Forest, in the employ of the Tunbridge Wells Local Board, giving evidence...
Or is it a different James Terry, if so, who?