Author Topic: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s  (Read 623 times)

Offline ValJJJ

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Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« on: Saturday 07 February 26 15:41 GMT (UK) »
I'm looking for passenger, departure, arrival records from the UK to North America for single mother Janet Brown born 1867 Liverpool and her daughter Ivy Brown born 29 March 1891 in London. 

Ivy's birth was registered on 22 May 1891 with no father stated, and Janet Isabell Brown, mother,  occupation a milliner. 14 The Terrace, Turnham Green, Chiswick, Middlesex.  In the census taken one week after the birth, Janet is 'married' with the surname of Thompson, and Ivy is also Thompson. Same address.   No Brown-Thompson marriage on FreeBMD.

What papers did you need then to embark from the UK and enter the USA/Canada?  Would they have needed birth certs so had to travel as Browns? Or could they have travelled as Thompsons?

The travel date for Janet would be in 1891 at the earliest and 1896/7 at the very latest as she appears in a 1897 Chicago city directory, probably compiled in 1896, under Milliners:
Brown Jeanette (Brown & Conner) 518, 34 Washington; residence 666 Park Ave; 
Conner Helen (Brown & Conner) 518, 34 Washington; residence 638 W Munroe.

There is a record of a Janet Brown of the correct age travelling on the Gallia in 1893 from Liverpool to New York. Janet Brown, aged 25, Spinster, arrived in New York heading for Indiana (her half brother John Miller Brown had emigrated there a few years earlier).  In the 1920 USA census she stated she arrived in 1893.

But there is no Ivy on this list, so was she left behind with family?  In US census forms, Ivy states arrival year as 1893 but was she just giving her mother's year of arrival or inventing a year?  Who took Ivy to the USA later? And how much later, as she's proved hard to trace in the USA, first appearing in the records in 1907 as Ivy Isabel Caldwell (Janet married Wm Caldwell in 1900) in a list of pupils recommended to go up to Lincoln high school, and a note that she was vaccinated in 1902 (TB?) but not where.  She then pops up in Frances Shimer School records 1908-1911 and later marrying Mr Goodman.

In the 1920 census, the first where she appears, she is Ivy Goodman, 27 (I have her marriage and divorce details) stating immigration year unknown and birth year abt 1893. Not naturalized. In 1930 she's [typo edit 39 not 29] and immigration year 1893. Not naturalized (transcript error says she is). In 1940 she's Ivy Plunkett, 46. In 1950 she is 55, and a citizen. The last two didn't ask about immigration dates.

This ties in with a very long thread about Ivy (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880505.0) but to save you reading it all here's the gist of what we know at the end of it all.

Janet/Jeanette Isabel(la) was the daughter of David Miller Brown 1820-1875 (born in Scotland, lived in Liverpool, died suddenly when in Dublin on a visit). Accountant/clerk/rent and rates collector in treasurer's office, corporation of Liverpool. 

Her mother was Emma Woods (1836-1881) and her brother was David Edward Brown (1868-) with another half brother Henry George Brown 1859-1918 (from DM Brown's first wife who died 1864). Janet was 14 when her mother died in Oct/Nov 1881, with brothers aged 17/18 and 12/13. Did the older brother look after them? Or did Janet then go and board out elsewhere? In the census earlier in 1881, the older brother Henry George 17 was a municipal clerk, but she and her other brother were still at school.  Her much older brother John Miller Brown was already in the USA.

In 1891 Janet's aunt Isobel Moore nee Woods was still in Liverpool, but her other aunt Ada Matilda (or Matilda Ada) Isobel Wayland (nee Woods) was with William Robinson Wayland and their children in Islington (34 Albion Grove), so quite close to Turnham Green.  Possibly one of these aunts took in Ivy until later?

The newspaper article about Janet's wedding to William Caldwell (June 1900) stated that they sailed for England immediately (but there were errors in the article), so perhaps she collected Ivy then, when she would have been 9 years old. Again, haven't found them on any passenger record to N America. Wm Caldwell was a mariner, and a master by 1889 so they may have travelled as crew in both directions.  There is a Mrs Caldwell, British subject, arriving in Liverpool 9 Aug 1900 from New York on the Majestic, part of the White Dominion Line.  This could be her but there are no other details in the record.

In the UK census 1901, there is a Janet Caldwell, 50 (this is clearly written), visitor born Liverpool, at her half-brother's Birkenhead address. Henry George Brown, head, single, 39, born Bootle, Lancs, collector [pencilled in 'local' and 'rates' by enumerator]. No Ivy though. I haven't spent much time looking for her in the UK, with RC only just finding her birth in the UK.  She may have been with relatives (Wayland or Moore), and using the Thompson name or transcribed with the family name.


Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 07 February 26 16:01 GMT (UK) »
From memory ..................

Just a reminder Janet Brown, aged 25 years,  Spinster, arrived in New York 13 th  March 1893. Travelled on the Gallia from Liverpool going to Indiana.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6BK-16G

She appears in Chicago directories from 1896 ish

Sandra

Added Just checked and it was jonwarrn that discovered the passenger list.  Way back reply 86 in Feb 2024........
BULLYING is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing, comments, or threats, in order to abuse, aggressively dominate, or intimidate one or more others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual.

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 07 February 26 17:00 GMT (UK) »


Just read this....... :-\

In 1893, infants were generally not listed on passenger lists unless they were traveling with their parents. Typically, only children who could be considered "able to read and write" were included in the passenger list, which usually required a ticket purchase. Therefore, it is unlikely that an infant under 2 would be listed on a passenger list in 1893

Sandra
BULLYING is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing, comments, or threats, in order to abuse, aggressively dominate, or intimidate one or more others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual.

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 07 February 26 17:09 GMT (UK) »
From memory ..................

Just a reminder Janet Brown, aged 25 years,  Spinster, arrived in New York 13 th  March 1893. Travelled on the Gallia from Liverpool going to Indiana.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6BK-16G

She appears in Chicago directories from 1896 ish

Sandra

Added Just checked and it was jonwarrn that discovered the passenger list.  Way back reply 86 in Feb 2024........

That was brave, ploughing through all that lot!

And a good memory! Impressive.
Crook, Bannister, Warren


Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 07 February 26 17:13 GMT (UK) »


Just read this....... :-\

In 1893, infants were generally not listed on passenger lists unless they were traveling with their parents. Typically, only children who could be considered "able to read and write" were included in the passenger list, which usually required a ticket purchase. Therefore, it is unlikely that an infant under 2 would be listed on a passenger list in 1893

Sandra

Oh. :-\

But where was she for the 1900 census in the USA? Unless with her mother on the wedding trip to Canada.  And Canada's census was 1901, so missed that one too.  So where was she for the 1901 census in Britain?
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 07 February 26 17:49 GMT (UK) »
Can't see Ivy as Brown, Caldwell or Thompson in the 1901 Scotland census. 
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Online Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 07 February 26 20:49 GMT (UK) »


What papers did you need then to embark from the UK and enter the USA/Canada?  Would they have needed birth certs so had to travel as Browns? Or could they have travelled as Thompsons?

 

As far as I am aware no papers were required at all. Passports as we know them today didn’t start till around 1914. Visas came later. In the 1890s, if travelling from the UK to the USA, you could just buy a ticket (in any name you liked).
Elwyn

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Janet and Ivy BROWN (or THOMPSON) leaving the UK for N. America? 1890s
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 07 February 26 21:50 GMT (UK) »
So what happened at Ellis Island, or was it just a port rather than a vetting place in those days?
Crook, Bannister, Warren

Offline dobfarm

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In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth