Gallagher - Rodgers

[Neale1961]

I assume that Robert and Catherine were still in Ireland in 1939, as I cannot find them in the 1939 Register in England.

She should, but if Robert was in the Army still, he would not appear.

Please note what I have written.  If they were not living in England in 1939, Catherine won't be in the English register of 1939.

Do you have an address for them in 1939?

[Jon_ni]

I was merely saying Robert would not appear in the English 1939 register if he was residing in England in an Army base as an active soldier, nor if serving abroad. Catherine should appear if living in England but if you looked for her by herself and did not find then I accept the likely answer she was in Ireland.

[Neale1961]

I was merely saying Robert would not appear in the English 1939 register if he was residing in England in an Army base as an active soldier, nor if serving abroad. Catherine should appear if living in England but if you looked for her by herself and did not find then I accept the likely answer she was in Ireland.

We already have Robert's birth details, so we are not looking for him.
What we are looking for is more detail for the birth of Catherine. All this explained in my previous post, which perhaps you missed reading. 

[Jon_ni]

No I didn't misread, the OP originally asked for birth and death details of both, which was why we both spent time looking independently, am aware details of Robert were pre-known.
Obviously you prefer to tackle alone, so will unfollow and let you find her DOB without further interruption.   

[BelfastBoy56]

Once again thanks to all for research so far.

I spent a lot of yesterday looking into the Bradley/Doherty family but didn’t really come to any conclusions. All the residents of the 1911 census with Catherine Gallagher adopted child were alive when marriage in 1929 took place, also if she was daughter of a relative would they not have known who her father was [marriage certificate states father unknown].

I have tried looking for Robert Frederick John Rodgers age 8 in the 1939 register - logic being that if I could find my father he would hopefully be with his mother, because as stated his father was in the Army so wouldn’t be listed.
I didn’t find anything so looking like Kathleen and my father were in Ireland. My grandfather being in the army could have been posted anywhere.

I have looked at several records on GRONI both in the name of Kathleen and Catherine Gallagher between 1900 and 1907, [her age being full on marriage certificate[ and am in the process of trying to verify or eliminate the possibilities, but also thinking that the first verified records for my grandmother were in the name of Kathleen: 1929 Marriage / 1930 Electoral Roll - Pontefract / 1931 Derry Birth Certificate of my father.
Only the latter Electoral Rolls 1954-1965 have been in the name of Catherine, also having purchased my grandfather’s death certificate, it looks like it was C Rodgers, Widow of 9 Chestnut Road, informant.

So should I be concentrating on looking for a birth of Kathleen not Catherine Gallagher.

[shanreagh]

Kathleen and Catherine, at least in my Irish family, are interchangeable names from the name Catherine. 

Kathleen is often used as a pet name and once in recent times, as a deliberate attempt, in the nicest way to get away from naming a grandchild Catherine but yet paying tribute to the child's grandmother.

[Neale1961]

Hello Belfast Boy
I agree, that Kathleen and Catherine are interchangeable names. We know that she used both Kathleen and Catherine, as seen in the records found so far.

I spent a lot of yesterday looking into the Bradley/Doherty family but didn’t really come to any conclusions.

I wondered if someone on that 1911 census was a Godparent to Kathleen.

Depending on how old she was when adopted, it is quite possible she never knew the names of either parent.

I also looked for Catherine and child in the 1939 register. Not found in England, but as an Army family, they could have been posted anywhere in the world.


What I have not had time to do is look at ALL the births for Catherine/ Kathleen Gallagher in Derry (~1903-1908), or for Catherine with a mother Gallagher, and then back track and check for deaths of one or both of her parents before 1911.
It will be a little time consuming, but I can’t think of a short cut to this, and it may bring results.
Don’t assume she WAS of full age at marriage. Plenty of people lie about their age so they can marry.


It is useful to know that Catherine was still alive when her husband died. We are looking for her death after 1965. She may be under a different name, if she re-married.

Do you know why Robert Frederick John Rodgers who died in 2003, was recorded on his death with the surname Gallagher?
Do you remember anything of your grandmother Catherine after 1965, or have any photos of her with the family after this date? For example - Did she attend your father's 2nd marriage.
I'm looking for anything that might give her place of abode after 1965.

There is this possible electoral roll. Not sure of it, and have not checked further.
1967 -1968 - 1970 Birmingham, All Saints, Soho; 48 Clarence Road  - Catherine ROGERS

[Neale1961]

Just another thought. Have you considered getting your grandfather’s military records to see what information they contain?

[shanreagh]

Once again thanks to all for research so far.

I spent a lot of yesterday looking into the Bradley/Doherty family but didn’t really come to any conclusions. All the residents of the 1911 census with Catherine Gallagher adopted child were alive when marriage in 1929 took place, also if she was daughter of a relative would they not have known who her father was [marriage certificate states father unknown].

....

So should I be concentrating on looking for a birth of Kathleen not Catherine Gallagher.

If Kathleen/Catherine was a daughter of a relative  then the father's name would not necessarily be known.  Especially so if the mother was the relative as the mother may not know or may not have wished to tell. 

Also the relationship between the parents and the adoptive parents need not necessarily be a close one in terms of the family ie could have been a cousin's daughter rather than say a the child of a sibling of either the Bradley or Doherty family.  This is because in close families a child may have been informally adopted within the wider family, by a childless couple or a couple who married relatively late and who may be older and/or possibly having trouble conceiving.  It was not unknown that parenting a child could encourage the conception of a child by an older couple. 

From the census Bernard Doherty is shown as  the brother in law of Patrick Bradley.  This might mean, taking the simplest idea,  that Elizabeth Doherty is the sister of Patrick Bradley ie she was nee Bradley.