Decifer Attestation Papers

[namatse]

I have a copy of the Attestation papers for my late father who served with the Welsh Guards during WW2.  Understanding these papers is proving more difficult than I first thought.
It is clear that he was present at the Battle of Boulogne in May 1940.
Whilst he spoke very little of his time during the war, he did say that he drove tanks.  I am hoping that the Attestation papers will show this.
I haven't attached the papers this time but will gladly do so if there is anyone who could help.
Thanks

[Andy J2022]

His attestation papers are unlikely to tell you much about his operational experience. Once he had actually joined his battalion, which I think would have been the 2nd battalion from what you have said, then the unit war diary is the best place to see what was happening on the ground. Fortunately some dedicated people over on the WW2Talk forum have transcribed large parts of the battalion's war diaries, starting here: http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/war-diary-2nd-battalion-welsh-guards-sep-1939-dec-1941.27407/ scroll down about two thirds of the page to 21 May 1940.  If you know which company he was in this will give you a more detailed picture of what he did during the defence of Boulogne.
The battalion were not equipped with tanks at that stage; that came later when they were part of 6th Guards Tank Brigade which took part in the D Day landings and then moved steadily eastwards and was involved in the re-taking of Brussels in late 1944.

[namatse]

Thank you for this information.
The Attestation papers show a number of "Transfers" and details regarding R.A.C. OCTV Bovington.
With this information I am assuming that he would have transferred to an armoured division at some period.  The ww2talk link as you know gives the link to the war diaries etc.  This is so helpful as I find the interface of the NA is not very user friendly.
Really appreciate your help

[Andy J2022]

By all means post images from his record here and we can try and decipher them for you. I have no idea what OCTV was, but of course Bovington is the home of the Royal Armoured Corps School and so he would probably have gone there to do his tank driver training in preparation for the conversion of his battalion to the armoured role. In 1939 he would just have been trained as an infantry soldier.

Individuals are posted between units (regiments or battalions), not between formations such as brigades or divisions. Formations are composed of a number of units as required for the pending operation, and so units move as formed bodies in and out of their parent brigades from time to time. For example during the Boulogne operation in 1941 2nd Welsh Guards were part of 20th Independent Infantry Brigade (Guards), but after they converted to the armoured role in 1941, they became part of tthe 6th Guards Tank Brigade as I mentioned earlier. Assuming that your father stayed with the 2nd battalion Welsh Guards throughout his war service, he would have moved with his unit, except when he was detached on a long course, such as his tank driver training.

Incidentally the 2nd Welsh Guards had 317 men (roughly two companies worth) taken prisoner at Boulogne.

[alan o]

OCTU would be Officer cadet Training Unit.

[Andy J2022]

Good call, Alan. I can't find an OCTU at Bovington, but given that it was and is a training establishment, it would have been a suitable location for an OCTU. I would have expected someone from a Guards Regiment to go the Guards Depot at Pirbight for officer training, but that wouldn't rule out the possibility of him perhaps seeking a commission in another regiment or corps, hence another OCTU. We would need to see the documents namatse has to confirm this avenue of research.

[alan o]

it would have been unusual for a Guardsman to commission into the Guards as the officers social status was very different.  Saying that if he was a former public school boy who was conscripted then it did happen.  I met an ex Guardsman who was the 2nd Battalion CO's batman with the Irish Guards in 30 Corps at Arnhem and that is exactly what happened to him.  The 2nd Battalion Irish Guards were an Armoured Battalion equipped with tanks so a course at the Armour Training Centre at Bovington would have been apt. 

From another Forum:

On the outbreak of the Second World War the Royal Military College was replaced by the Sandhurst Officer Cadet Training Unit of two wings. These became respectively 101 Royal Armoured Corps OCTU and 161 Infantry OCTU (RMC). A London TA unit, the Inns of Court Officers Training Corps, formed the RAC OCTU and the Royal Military College formed the Infantry OCTU, with the subtitle RMC. Officer cadets of 161 Infantry OCTU were allowed to wear the RMC cap badge, although they were in fact soldiers belonging to the various regiments into which they were called up for the duration of hostilities. In 1942 101 RAC OCTU amalgamated with 162 Reconnaissance Corps OCTU (formed from the Infantry Battalion of another London TA regiment, the Honourable Artillery Company) to form 100 RAC OCTU. At the same time, the Infantry OCTU moved to Mons Barracks at Aldershot, where it remained, retaining its RMC associations, until 1946. It then returned to Sandhurst, while the RAC OCTU moved to Bovington.

[namatse]

Not sure exactly what I am doing wrong but I am unable to attach the paperwork.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopy/RC-027033-G3Z5H5-0378b60a-5ed5-497b-b0f0-2f96bf588aa0
Are you able to access from the link above ?
Thanks for your help

[alan o]

He is posted to be on the staff of the OCTU at Bovington.  He is helping to train the Officer Cadets.