Author Topic: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.  (Read 313 times)

Offline AlanK2

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Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« on: Sunday 01 February 26 12:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi all –

(Apologies for the long post, but I wanted to explain the background to my query and offer as much info as I can) 

I have two photographs of a young woman that I am trying to identify. It’s a long shot, but I’m wondering whether it is acceptable to post the images here to see if anyone can shed any light on who she might be, given that she is not a biological relation of mine.

Let me explain – my father, Leslie Albert Kinsman, died in 2010, and while my mother and I were in the hospice during his final hours, she told me something that I had never heard before. Apparently, my father had been due to marry another woman about a year or so before he married my mother, so 1944 or 1945. In the event, my father was left standing at the altar. My mother couldn’t tell me who the young woman was, but said she came from Leeds and that was where the marriage was due to have taken place. She also told me that my father had always carried a photo of her in his wallet, and when I went through his effects after he died, I found the photos I referred to above.

The two photos date from 1943 and 1944 – both were taken in professional studios, the earlier one at Empire Studios in Oxford Street, London, the later one at Roberts’s Studio, either at 45, Headrow, Leeds, or 35, Baxtergate, Doncaster on June 4th that year. The later photo is inscribed ‘with love’ to my father, but she hasn’t written her name.

My belief is that the marriage would have been by licence, and with that in mind I contacted the Borthwick Institute in Leeds to see if they had any record of a marriage licence application in my father’s name. They drew a blank, and I’m not sure where else I might be able to look, given that there was no marriage. A licence record would appear to be the only possible official recognition that there was to have been a marriage at all. No mention of an engagement has been found in online newspaper archives.

So, I have two pictures, nominally of a woman from the Leeds area, though one of them was taken in London. Given that my family has no known connections to Leeds, I’m tempted to conclude that the young lady in question may have been in the WRNS – my father was in the RN – and that they met through military service. One of the photos shows some sort of insignia, again possibly military, but the image is not very clear. My father was based at Chatham in Kent, I believe, and served as a stoker, but I have no details of which ship(s) he might have been on, or when.

I’d like to put a name to the face, purely to fill in a gap in my father’s life story, and I have no interest or intention of engaging with the family of the woman in question, if she can be identified, unless they have information they’d like to impart.

Thoughts?   

Alan.
       

Offline Spelk

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 07 February 26 15:23 GMT (UK) »
Your dad was born in 1925 so if she was the same age then she would now be age 100. If she was a couple of years younger 98 so will still be assumed to be possibly alive so you should not post photos of her on here.
Shame as her family would probably have liked to see them and, if she had descendants, they would likely recognise her.
PS - if you crop the picture to remove her face then you could post the photo to see if anyone can identify the insignia.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 07 February 26 16:00 GMT (UK) »
I think the WRNS hypothesis is a good one, given the geographical disconnection with Leeds, and the fact that the proposed wedding was during wartime. If that is the case, the woman would have had to be at least 18 in 1943 when the first photograph was taken, meaning that she would have been born before 1926. I think Spelk is being unnecessarily cautious in suggesting that she may have been 2 years younger than your father, and in any case, publishing her photos here would not necessarily divulge her name. That said, Spelk is right that we don't need to see her face in order to draw some conclusions about the badge or other items in the image.

Do you have your father's service record? Being Navy, his record won't contain a lot of detail, but there is just a chance there may be a clue as to when the planned wedding was, for instance because he took some leave, or if the wedding was planned between times when he was known to be at sea etc. A long shot I know but you don't have much else to go.

Also, if she was a Wren, then it is possible they planned the wedding to take place a service chapel convenient to where they were both stationed, rather than the bride's home town. This is less likely I agree, but worth considering when looking for newspaper notices or indeed licences.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 07 February 26 16:42 GMT (UK) »
It is worth adding, based on the WRNS hypothesis, that the woman would have had to leave the Navy on marriage. Perhaps this was a factor in her changing her mind at the last minute.


Offline Romilly

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 07 February 26 18:06 GMT (UK) »

I would go ahead and post the photos on here. You can always obscure her face if you preferred to do that. I'm sure that someone on here will be able to work out the insignia.

Romilly.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Researching:
Wilson, Warren, Dulston, Hooper, Duffin, Petty, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Edmeads, Pattenden.

Offline AlanK2

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 08 February 26 01:18 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, all.

I'll do a bit more research into my father's Navy service and consider my options. I think the quality of the photo would probably preclude any identification of the insignia I mentioned, but I might give that a shot in a while. You've given me a couple of things to think about, so that's good.

Alan.

Offline Spelk

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 08 February 26 10:37 GMT (UK) »
I think that servicemen had to get permission to marry so that should be on his record. Whether you can access it I do not know.

Offline AntonyMMM

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 08 February 26 11:21 GMT (UK) »
Consider that the marriage could have been planned for the register office, they were common in wartime and often using a registrar's licence to reduce the time needed.

If they did plan that there would be a record in the notice books, which should survive. They occasionally can be found in county archives but most often are still in the custody of the registration office in the district concerned.

From experience I can tell you that getting access to them is possible, but can be difficult ( if they admit to having them at all).

Offline AlanK2

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Re: Help/advice Regarding a Family Mystery, Please.
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 08 February 26 13:30 GMT (UK) »
My major problem is that I can't be sure where the marriage was supposed to take place, which makes it a big job. That was why I thought the photographs might be the best way forward - if the young lady in question could be identified, I hoped someone in her family would be able to provide more background information.
Still, as I say, options to consider and some more lines of enquiry to explore, so thanks for all your thoughts. 

Alan.