Author Topic: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?  (Read 193 times)

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Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« on: Tuesday 20 January 26 18:46 GMT (UK) »
I have a number of kin spread across Yorkshire and East Anglia who may have shared common ancestry. A number of them have monuments in churches referencing arms granted in about 1615.

In the absence of known arms, might the stonemason simply have looked up possible matches and given them the benefit of the doubt? The infrequent use of the arms makes me doubt that they would have been known to the different family branches who were mainly of the middling sort, with some upward mobility.

I'd be grateful if anyone has come across something similar.


Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 21 January 26 11:56 GMT (UK) »
1616 tome.
Any of your "rellies" viscounts or above?
In the absence of a drawing (blank shield) could the stonemason create from the description?

https://archive.org/details/cataloguesuccess00broo/mode/2up

Offline Zaphod99

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Re: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 January 26 12:02 GMT (UK) »
I do like the idea of imagining them thumbing through a glossy mail order catalogue.

And then the medieval equivalent of the delivery driver turning up and chucking the stones over the fence.  Probably the fence of the people next door.

Zaph

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Re: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 January 26 12:14 GMT (UK) »
1635

https://www.proquest.com/eebo/docview/2240901487/99852759/A481D7520C494C66PQ/1?accountid=12799&sourcetype=Books

Zaph,
A favour please - can you confirm the URL delivers ie. you are not locked out of viewing the end product.


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Re: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 January 26 12:44 GMT (UK) »
The reference to the original grant comes from the 'GRANTEES OF ARMS NAMED IN DOCQUETS AND PATENTS TO THE END OF THE XVII CENTURY', BRITISH MUSEUM MS 37,147: KITCHINMAN (Helmsley, Yorkshire), patent .... April 1616, by Camden. Harl. MSS. 6095, fo. 33b, and 1422, fo. 40b : argt., on a pile sable betw. two cross crosslets fitchee gu. three lozenges of the field.

https://archive.org/details/granteesofarmsna00fost/page/146/mode/1up

So yes, a stone mason could recreate from a description.

The first monument is in Blundeston St Mary Suffolk, with the same arms for Clement Kitchingman, Rector, impaled with those of Mary Howard. He was from Norwich but his family originated in Shadwell near Leeds. I do not have any documentary link to the Kitchingmans from the North Riding, though I suspect they are related.
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2015/199/149498053_1437328772.jpg

The second monument is in St Peter Mancroft, Norwich. Dorothy Blyford (nee Kitchingman) was born in Halifax but descended from a branch of the Kitchingman family from Thirkleby in the North Riding. I have a blurry photograph but the description in British History Online reads:
Quote
BHO:  The flat stones in this [NORTH] isle, beginning at the east end, are... Blyford's arms and crest, a demi-lion or. Thomas Blyford died 1723. Blyford quarterly arg. and gul. on a bend sab. three mullets of the field, impaling Kitchingman, arg. on a pile sab. between two croslets fitché gul. three lozenges or Mathew Blyford, born Aug. 26, 1705, died 3 June 1706, and Kitchingman Blyford born 12 Oct. 1708, died 19 Aug. 1710, both Sons of Mathew Blyford of this Parish, and Dorothy his Wife



 

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 January 26 12:53 GMT (UK) »
Nothing so grand as a Viscount and these are the only references I've found of the arms being used.

Some of the C17 Kitchingmans acquired the titles of Mr and gentleman, through the legal and clerical professions. A branch from the North Riding became successful Leeds wool merchants and seem to have appropriated another set of arms (I haven't found any record of a grant).


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Re: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 January 26 12:55 GMT (UK) »
A George Kitchingman from Raskelf failed to turn up to a summons from Dugdale to show by what right he bore arms/took on the title of esquire or gentleman. He was in good company as a third of those summoned also didn't turn up.

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Re: Did C17 stonemasons have access to a book of heraldic templates?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 January 26 13:07 GMT (UK) »
See reply #3 - does the URL deliver the goods?