Author Topic: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father  (Read 1572 times)

Offline softly softly

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #81 on: Saturday 17 January 26 08:26 GMT (UK) »


I couldn’t agree more. It is verging on a comic opera.


Quite!

Living in tents on the veld with multiple wives, while boinking grand duchesses in between performances of his vaudeville act....

You couldn't make this stuff up.

That's the trouble you CAN make this stuff up  ;D

SS

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #82 on: Saturday 17 January 26 08:28 GMT (UK) »
Seems to me that we have an abundance of red herrings to chase.

I couldn’t agree more. It is verging on a comic opera.
Yet, the DNA link has been largely ignored.

The DNA match has been focusing on the Myerson side - but don't know why. The link has other ancestors.

The match is 5%, from DNA painter
64%Great-Great-Aunt / Uncle Half Great-Aunt / Uncle Half 1C 1C1R Half Great-Niece / Nephew Great-Great-Niece / Nephew
35%Half GG-Niece / Nephew † Half GG-Aunt / Uncle † 2C Half 1C1R 1C2R

The match has named her grandparents (through her father) as Morris / Maurice Myerson and Mildred (Roth). She is therefore one  of the 3 daughters of that couple's only son.
Morris and Peter are near contemporaries, so likely that the match and Jb are near enough contemporary, so we can probably eliminate any of the great.. and great-great.. relationships.
We probably have to go back to at least great grandparents to find  a link.
Assuming no endogamy, the match will have the normal 4 pairs of great grandparents- i.e 8 people who will have contributed to her DNA and need to be investigated. 

Turning to Auntie's saga. We don't know when it was written or more importantly when she acquired this wealth of information. Was she an inquisitive child who wondered why she did not appear to have any grandparents. Her maternal gp's (Carstens) died in the 1920s, grandad was a carpenter originally from Cape Town and moved to Johannesberg. No sensational story there. But was she fed all sort of romantic stories about the paternal side, which an impressionable child might have believed? Was Peter illegitimate and didn't actually know who his parents (or his father) were? Was he estranged from them and didn't want to tell her about his real family? Had he really been born in the Transvaal (or more precisely Pretoria) while his mother was taking a holiday, just before the 2nd Boer war (which must have been simmering for ages) officially started.
Did he really spend his childhood elsewhere and return to SA as a adult? Is Peter Barnato his original name? Although Barney Barnato had died in July 1897 (which of course is more than 9 months before Peter's dob as stated on his death record (20/09/1899), the company continued and would be well known throughout SA even without the internet.
 
Jb has a total of 9% Jewish heritage, almost equal amounts from two different regions. If she tested with Ancestry she should be able to get an indication which side of the family this was from, it may not be from her father's side.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline jaywit

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #83 on: Saturday 17 January 26 08:35 GMT (UK) »
Seems to me that we have an abundance of red herrings to chase.

I couldn’t agree more. It is verging on a comic opera.
Yet, the DNA link has been largely ignored.

I think there is a Jewish link through the Jews from Eastern Europe  but if  it was Barney Barnato  who knows.
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

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Offline jaywit

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #84 on: Saturday 17 January 26 08:39 GMT (UK) »
Lizzie looking at newspapers on Find my Past there are reports from very soon after Barney's death claiming relationship to him.

Not uncommon when a millionaire dies. My family tried it on.
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

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Offline Gan Yam

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #85 on: Sunday 18 January 26 11:58 GMT (UK) »


"I think there is a Jewish link through the Jews from Eastern Europe  but if  it was Barney Barnato  who knows"

The Myerson's appear to be the Jewish link or one of them.  They are Jewish family from Lithuania. The original family name was Karnovsky, but the three of the sons became Myerson, possibly when/after they moved from Lithuania?
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Offline LizzieL

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #86 on: Monday 19 January 26 07:49 GMT (UK) »


"I think there is a Jewish link through the Jews from Eastern Europe  but if  it was Barney Barnato  who knows"

The Myerson's appear to be the Jewish link or one of them.  They are Jewish family from Lithuania. The original family name was Karnovsky, but the three of the sons became Myerson, possibly when/after they moved from Lithuania?

But how do we know the Myersons are where Jb's family and her DNA match are linked genetically? Could be on the match's mother's side.

Ror example: I have a 5.5% match. If I asked him who his dad's parents were and I was told William Douglas and Ada Louisa White. I could spend weeks / months trying to find a genetic link between myself and this couple and not find it, because there is none. My link to this match is through his mother's side. He is my second cousin. My maternal grandfather and his maternal grandfather were brothers.

Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Gan Yam

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #87 on: Monday 19 January 26 15:27 GMT (UK) »

But how do we know the Myersons are where Jb's family and her DNA match are linked genetically? Could be on the match's mother's side.


Jb said in reply#7 "The closest DNA match live in Johannesburg in South Africa as far as I know but comms has been ignored by her for a few years.
According to the test she is 1st cousin 1x removed or half 1st cousin, Paternal side, 5% shared DNA. She does not have a tree.
All she gave me is that “our dad's parents were Maurice and Mildred Myerson
My paternal grandfather, Maurice was one of 6 children. If you are our 1st or 2nd cousin, then it means that my father has/had a sibling that we were all unaware of and I find that highly unlikely.”

I read that as the match was paternal to the Myersons, but maybe I'm reading that wrong? Could it mean Jb's paternal side, but the Myerson's maternal side, or visa versa?
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Offline jellybean2894

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #88 on: Monday 26 January 26 13:55 GMT (UK) »
Sorry been AWOL but was travelling last week.

Tim, a DNA match on Ancestry (2nd–3rd Cousin | Paternal side Shared DNA: 120 cM across 6 segments) has advised “My South Africa connection is through relatives who migrated to Jo'burg from Dublin, Ireland, in the late 1930s as far as I know - this includes my grandfather whose name was, or became, Michael Myerson, who was a medical doctor, who moved again just before WWII to work in Cardiff, South Wales, with his wife, son and daughter. He lived in Cardiff for the rest of his life and died in the mid-1970s.”

Further to this, an ex-Search Angel has advised that “Michael's father's brother is the Barnett Myerson I mentioned in my email who moved to the US. He is the right "degree" away to be your great grandfather, but I haven't been able to confirm it.”  She thinks that Myer C Myerson (1892-1973) is Michael Myerson mentioned above, thus his uncle would be a sibling of his father Hyman Karnovsky i.e. Barnett Myerson.

I am currently checking with Jewish authorities in JNB regarding possible registration but I don’t think he will have been registered as Virginia was Catholic, and he would have taken on her faith. I will contact the Catholic church to see if they have central registration of births or baptisms as I wouldn’t be able to pin down a church or diocese.

Offline jellybean2894

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #89 on: Monday 26 January 26 13:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to you all for your ongoing searches and info shared, it is appreciated.  :)