Author Topic: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father  (Read 1571 times)

Online Wexflyer

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #72 on: Friday 16 January 26 17:27 GMT (UK) »
This is interesting...

"...A word about his marriage and descendants may be
quoted here. Barnato met his future wife at Kimberley
in 1874, and in 1875 they were secretly married by the
civil law. Mrs. Barnato was not a Jewess, and the
marriage was certain to be bitterly opposed by the
family. She was a most able, accomplished woman,
and adopted the Hebrew faith, in which the children of
course are brought up. The eldest, Leah Primrose,
born in 1893, was named after his mother, and his first
mining venture ; Isaac Henry, and Woolf Joel Barnato
are the younger children."

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/121635356

As others have pointed out, this makes no sense.
What can sometime explain such stories is that they can be a conflation of two separate events or timelines. Or they can simply be dead wrong.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline PatLac

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #73 on: Friday 16 January 26 17:39 GMT (UK) »
This biography is available online and it makes sense to me.They couldn't have children until she was accepted by his family, or maybe because they didn't have money to start a family. Anyway, maybe that civil document or the passenger lists can be found.

https://gemology.se/gill-library/gemjewelry/Barnato_Barney_ie_Barnett_Isaacs_1852-1897_a_Memoir_Harry_Raymond_1898.pdf

"After breakfast I walked down to the club with him, and
his mind was still full of the children.
'Isn't it strange,; he said,
Fanny and I were married for eighteen years and no children,
and now we have' Miss Barnato' and Jack, and we must get back to London at once."


"Barnato was most fondly attached to his wife and children,
and they accompanied him in all his journeys to and from
London. In the earlier days, before the children came,
Mrs. Barnato accompanied her husband on his journeys to the
Hand and Capetown, when the only conveyance was for the
richest a cart or special coach, over rude trackways that an
English coachman would despair of."


"Barnato met his future wife at Kimberley in 1874, and in
1875 they were secretly married by the civil law. The
marriage was kept secret for some time, for Mrs. Barnato was
not of the Hebrews, and the marriage was certain to be
bitterly opposed by his family. However, Barnato had taken
his own way, as he generally did; he married the wife of his
choice, a most able, accomplished and clever woman, and the
family objections were overcome when Mrs. Barnato adopted
the Hebrew faith. The children have, of course, been brought
up in that faith.
The eldest child, the daughter named Leah Primrose, after
Bamato's mother and his first Transvaal mining venture, was
bom at 28 Park Lane on March 16, 1893.
The next child, a boy, named Isaac Henry Woolf, was born
at 36 Curzon Street, Mayfair, on June 7, 1894. He is
commonly called Jack, and is the hero of the bicycle.
The third and youngest child, a boy, named Woolf Joel,
was bom at Spencer House, St. James's Place, on September 27, 1895."

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #74 on: Friday 16 January 26 18:35 GMT (UK) »
It may actually be true.

His wife Fanny was born in South Africa, but she seems to have lived for a large part of her widowhood in Britain and she died at Ascot in 1943.  She made a number of trips abroad and can be found on the passenger lists.

The report of her death in the newspapers says that she trekked to the diamond fields at Kimberley with her husband when she was 19.  Her date of birth is variously given as 1856-59, depending on the source/record.  It also said that her first home was in a tent in Kimberley, but she went on to be a celebrated hostess in the diamond fields.

The link I posted previously says that she and Barney Barnato were married in November 1892 at Chelsea Register Office.  Barney and Fanny arrived in England from Cape Town in January 1892 and she travelled as Mrs Barnato.

The marriage in South Africa may well be true. 

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline PatLac

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #75 on: Friday 16 January 26 19:13 GMT (UK) »
Life is stranger than fiction!

The more I read about him the more I like him  ;D

Barney Barnato.

Many years ago, Barney Barnato
rented a little house in one of the
frontier towns of South Africa. Barney
spent considerable in improving the
house, but he quarreled with the landlord
and decided to move. By inserting the
following advertisement in the local
paper, the prospective millionaire in some
measure got even with his landlord :
"Wanted, by a gentleman who agreed
to leave dwelling occupied by him in
condition is which he found it, 100,000
lively black beetles." Then followed
Barney's name and address.


Offline KitCarson

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #76 on: Friday 16 January 26 19:23 GMT (UK) »
Bookmarking as I can't wait to hear more!  Well done to all who have contributed to JB's quest.

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

Offline PatLac

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #77 on: Friday 16 January 26 19:57 GMT (UK) »
Fanny's sister Alice, although the father's last name and place of birth seem odd.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WDG-ZNL?treeref=GQ1S-LDC&lang=en

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW18960625.2.242

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/150379749

A BARNATO ROMANCE.
Mrs Blackman, residing at 405 Perry
street, Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A., claims to
be the daughter of Mr Barnato by a first
wife, whose maiden name was Anna
Estha. She says that her mother was
legally married to Mr Barnato, and lived
with him for 15 years. She then went to
Poland, and a separation took place later,
when her mother and herself came to
America. Mrs Blackman is about to
visit London to demand her interest in
the deceased millionaire's fortune. Alice
Holbrook, the well-known comic opera
singer (says the '"Washington correspond
dent of the London " Daily Chronicle ")
is the sister of Mr Barnato's wife. She
is now living in New York, and declares
the Blackman story from Cleveland to be
a fabrication.
She asserts that Mr Barney
Barnato was never married before he
wedded her sister.
The Holbrooks were
living in Kimberley at the time he
married, and Alice says that she remem
bers very well all the circumstances in
connection with the courtship and the
wedding. Two cigur-mukers in Boston,
Mr Barnett Meyers and Mr Wolf Meyers,
claim to be cousins of the dead man.

It might be true if they had married in 1875  ;D

Online Wexflyer

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #78 on: Saturday 17 January 26 04:28 GMT (UK) »
Seems to me that we have an abundance of red herrings to chase.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #79 on: Saturday 17 January 26 05:02 GMT (UK) »
Seems to me that we have an abundance of red herrings to chase.

I couldn’t agree more. It is verging on a comic opera.
Yet, the DNA link has been largely ignored.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Online Wexflyer

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Re: Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father
« Reply #80 on: Saturday 17 January 26 05:13 GMT (UK) »


I couldn’t agree more. It is verging on a comic opera.


Quite!

Living in tents on the veld with multiple wives, while boinking grand duchesses in between performances of his vaudeville act....

You couldn't make this stuff up.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area