Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father

[jaywit]

Jellybean is online now, I think we need to wait for them to post.

[jellybean2894]

Morning all,

Wow, I can't believe how much has come up.

I've just read through everything and here's my 2 cents:

Oppenheimer and Barnato are two very wealthy, powerful names which is why I have always thought my aunt's story had a touch of fancy and we always wondered about being related to Barney, but we could never quite get there.

Peter's mother apparently had the title of the Grand Duchesse of Higher and Lower Savoy and her brother was the Duke D'Avignon. Peter's grandfather was believed to be Louis Woolf Barnato and was the middle of three brothers.

As far as I know, the surname Barnato came from the crowds calling for Barney when his brother and he fought in the boxing ring "Barney-too, Barney too" - became Barnato...dunno.

I agree that the link to Mary Lina & Peter seems wrong timewise - Mary was only just a bit older than Peter himself. I came across a different surname for her though - Roubicek.

My aunt's saga mentions a Captain Jack Barnato, being with Rosalind.

Another note: there seem to be a lot of Joels and Woolfs and Sollys in the mix, which is where I got a bit muddled.

On Diana Barnato-Walker - my aunt once tried to visit her in the Uk but was turned away at the door apparently, as they would have been half-sisters (is that right?)...but maybe when you are famous like Diana, you probably have all sorts knocking on your door claiming to be family.

Yes, my DNA shows % Ashkenazi Jew.

Re this morning's post on previous enquiries on the same name - that was posted by family of Peter's wife Gladys Helen and I cannot access that familysearch link so I don't think hours have been wasted. I am "simply" trying to find documented, factual links that have not been influenced by my aunts recollections, which have seemingly made their way into legal documents and are now taken as fact, even though we have nothing to validate them with.

I am sorry if you think I have wasted your time, that was not my intention - I have just not been able to get answers for this over many years, so queries that I and others may have raised will inevitably come up. I apologise...but my question has not been answered yet and I will keep trying.

[Wexflyer]

The other thread had a specific date and location for Peter's birth. Is that not sufficient to locate birth documentation for him?

[jaywit]

Jellybean '  my DNA shows % Ashkenazi Jew. '  What %?

[LizzieL]

As far as I can se the only facts we have are Peter's marriage record, Peter' death record and various DNA matches.
Images of the marriage record and the death registration are attached to an Ancestry tree. Both appear to have had later annotations, so am not sure what the original would look like.

I remember wasting a lot of time on a Rootschat thread several years ago, when the OP was basing their knowledge on a heavily annotated marriage certificate posted on someone else's tree. The tree owner had added place and dob to the name of the father of the bride or groom (can't remember which). The OP took this information as gospel  and a lot of time was wasted in a fruitless search for this man.

According to the marriage record Peter (as Peter Barnato) was 33 on 21 Sept 1931, giving a birth date between 22 sept 1897 and 21 sept 1898
Peter (as Peter Carl Barnett)'s death was on 5 Aug 1964 death date and age was stated as 64, giving a birth date between 6 Aug 1899 and 5 aug 1900. This range is consistent with dob stated on death record of 20 sept 1899.
Which age is more likely to be right? Peter himself when he married or an informant (who doesn't appear to be a family member) after his death. Signature of informant attached

The death record says his birth was in Pretoria, his marriage record says Transvaal, which (for that time) would be consistent

[jellybean2894]

@ Jaywit - 5% Ashkenazi Jew: Eastern Europe / Russia
4% Ashkenazi Jew: Central and SE Europe

@Wexflyer - I can't open that but the only formal documentation I have for Peter Carl is his death certificate / his death notice includes information provided by my aunt who was there when he died but is unsubstantiated.
In SA, I have made application for a birth certificate with Home Affairs but as has been pointed out earlier on this forum, we are not that good with record keeping, especially pre-1900.

[LizzieL]

Jellybean claimed DNA connection to
Maurice Harris MYERSON married Mildred ROTH in 1931
This was his 2nd marriage (Previous marriage to Rose KARNOFSKY in 1924 London)

According to an on line tree, Rose died in 1926.
If he didn't marry Mildred until 1931, I wonder who the Annie was, who accompanied him on the Armadale Castle from SA  to Southampton arriving 8 June 1929. She was recorded as his wife.

Morris Myerson is about the same age as Peter, so if the connection is here, it would be a generation earlier than the uncommunicative DNA match said 

The closest DNA match live in Johannesburg in South Africa as far as I know but comms has been ignored by her for a few years.
According to the test she is 1st cousin 1x removed or half 1st cousin, Paternal side, 5% shared DNA. She does not have a tree.
All she gave me is that “our dad's parents were Maurice and Mildred Myerson
My paternal grandfather, Maurice was one of 6 children. If you are our 1st or 2nd cousin, then it means that my father has/had a sibling that we were all unaware of and I find that highly unlikely.”

It might mean that Morris was the one with an unknown half sibling, not one of his children.

[jaywit]

This gives a bit of an explanation of % Jewish heritage.

https://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials/dna/how-a-dna-test-revealed-my-jewish-ancestry

[LizzieL]

In SA, I have made application for a birth certificate with Home Affairs but as has been pointed out earlier on this forum, we are not that good with record keeping, especially pre-1900.

This website says birth registration in Transvaal didn't start until 1901
https://www.ancestors.co.za/birth-records-south-africa/