Please help me trace my paternal family beyond my father

[jellybean2894]

HI, This is something I have been trying my hand at for some years but I have had no success.
I have had a DNA test done, which gave me a glimmer of hope when I found very close cousins in the same country (South Africa) but they are disinclined to contemplate we're related and have shut down my queries.
We grew up hearing enchanting and adventurous stories about my grandfather, who was from Europe but as a young man was thrown out of his wealthy, powerful, noble family to follow his heart to Africa, where he had 3 children with my grandmother. He seems to have used a double barrel surname so some documents show one, some show the other; we have only the information my aunt compiled before she died, which is once again feeds into the fantastic stories and glamour, but with little factual input. I am seriously stumped. I have engaged with a genealogist from SearchAngels and she has said that there is not sufficient to work on try and triangulate a relative. I am determined that 2026 will be the year I crack this but I haven't a clue where to start besides trawling Ancestry, FamilySearch etc etc. Please can someone give me some advice or a new route to take. Any and all advice appreciated. Thank you!

[gc1]

Hi don't worry we've all been there with our own family stories with little or no facts to back it up.

Firstly it would help if you could post what information you do have such as Names, DoBs, Location, odd facts and any other random stuff you have heard over the years, This could help others see things in a different light and help steer you in the right direction.

Good luck and happy hunting 

[softly softly]

Why not share what you do know, possible speculation, names dates etc. do not name any living persons. Im sure rootschatters would welcome a good challenge

SS

[Milliepede]

Did he marry your grandmother?  If so the marriage record could help. 

[Neale1961]

Since you are "determined to crack this", and you have nothing to loose, why not post ALL the information that you do have, as Softly Softly suggested.
There are people here who are willing to help.

[Ruskie]

If you have close DNA matches, it doesn’t matter whether or not they believe you are related. You most definitely are!

Have you looked at people who match both yourself and these “cousins”? They may have trees which might help you piece the families together.

In addition, if your grandfather was from Europe it might be worth uploading your raw data to My Heritage, which seems to be a popular DNA test for Europeans, and you might get some useful matches. I think it is still free to upload your Ancestry raw data but you may have to pay a little to unlock some of their tools, which is worth doing I think.

I’m sure you’ll get some great help here both with your paper trail and analysing your dna results.

[Wexflyer]

The cousins who are the DNA matches.
- Where are they located? In Europe?
- As you have been in contact (or tried to contact them), you must know something about them? Perhaps surnames and locations?
- Family trees online for the matches? Or second cousins, etc, failing the first cousins.

The DNA matches must give you something to go on! And if you have matches, even if they don't have have family trees online themselves, perhaps you can create ones for them, or more distant matches.

[jellybean2894]

Thanks all for your offer of support. 

Here is the info I have on my grandfather.

Peter Carl Barnett Barnato    ID211/543220    Estate file 270/65.
(Could be double barreled or could be either surname)

Born – Transvaal, South Africa 20/09/1899, may have been December.
Birth was believed to have been registered in his home country - Italy or France - but I haven’t found trace of that. I have also not been able to get a South African birth certificate due pre-1900 birth. He was born here whilst his mother was on holiday.

My aunt’s family history document aka “the saga" says he may have had a child with a woman he met on the boat to SA when he was 21, her name was Rosalind and the child was thought to be Diana, born circa 1922 (Barnato Walker?). This Diana had a daughter by the name of Charmaine.
His father is believed to have owned a villa on Lake Como.
One of Peter's aunts was believed to have been the first wife of Sir Ernest Oppenheimer.

Peter married Gladys Helen Elizabeth Carstens on 21/09/1931 and they had three children – Monica, Julian and Ronald (all deceased)

Gladys passed away at Addington Hospital, Durban. (DOB 28/08/1907-12/08/1953)
 
The marriage certificate says he was aged 33 at the time of marriage, which indicates he would have been born in 1898.

Peter died in Orange Grove, Johannesburg, 05/08/1964
      
The document ”Form of information of a death” shows Barnett as the surname, with Barnett Barnato written alongside in pencil.

The document “Death Notice” includes information that I believe my aunt would have given the authorities on the day he died, listing Louis Woolf Barnett-Barnato as Peter’s father, and Virginia Barnett-Barnato as his mother, yet we have no proof or documentation to this effect.

This Death Notice document also includes the name of his sister, believed to be Marie Barnett Barnato, married name Bertola or Bertish. The ”saga" speaks of a Nino (Giovanni?) Bertola, married to this Maria and I have found records of their death in Harrismith in 1948 South Africa. They were married in Biela in Italy. They adopted Louis James Bertola, born 12/04/1934. I learnt somehow that Louis is deceased, but this may be a wild goose chase as I haven’t found a link to Barnett/ Barnato anywhere with Bertola.

Peter may have had another sister, Virginia, who drowned when she was 18 years old.

The closest DNA match live in Johannesburg in South Africa as far as I know but comms has been ignored by her for a few years.
According to the test she is 1st cousin 1x removed or half 1st cousin, Paternal side, 5% shared DNA. She does not have a tree.
All she gave me is that “our dad's parents were Maurice and Mildred Myerson
My paternal grandfather, Maurice was one of 6 children. If you are our 1st or 2nd cousin, then it means that my father has/had a sibling that we were all unaware of and I find that highly unlikely.”

Another DNA match has given me some info about a Myerson connection – I must relook at that as it has disappeared in memory bank and now that I see this written down, it may be something worth looking at.

I will send more info if I come across any, and once again - thanks for sharing your expertise and willingness!

[Biggles50]

South African records are very inconsistent in their availability if in fact they exist at all.  The Death records are the best source as they tend to list all known children.  Unlike the UK Marriage Certs do not necessarily list the Father’s.

Where suspected or actual NPE’s took place then a paper trail may or may not exist.

DNA is the only pathway but it can be a waiting game for a likely route to be found.

Tree build from a match and at some point the paths cross and mean, motive and opportunity exist for the gene transfer to take place.

On a tree I manage a GGM has an unknown Father and via DNA I have found a likely candidate who lived in a village a mile or so away around the time of conception.  That is it, there is no other firm outcome, just a probability/possibility.  It was a long process and involved over 100 DNA matches where each had a tree built.