Complete blank for Charles Francis McGuinness -

[MrsSelfPub]

Can anyone please help us get past a complete roadblock, the like of which we’ve not seen before?
Charles (Francis) McGuinness born possibly 1878 in Westminster, according to the 1921 census. However, we can’t find any birth records for him or his marriage to his wife: Gertrude Mary O’Morgan b1890. We think she was born in Gibraltar.

We are just looking for anything to try to get back further with him.

Many many thanks in advance.

Helen and Abbey

[Clarkey500]

Hi Helen and Abbey,

I've had a family in London who decided to change their names - not that I'm suggesting Charles has, but in a highly-populated area it can be tricky to be sure. The only way I managed to prove and develop a theory was through DNA. I'm presuming that you are descended from the couple, so if you (or the most recent descendant from them) have taken a DNA test, it is what I would suggest.

I've had a quick look and have found this possibility on the 1881 census:
Holborn Union Workhouse:
Charles McGuiness, Pauper - Inmate, 8 years old, Unknown Occupation, Unknown Birthplace

Age is slightly out though.

[mckha489]

I see in 1921 he is “not occupied for a living”
What is his occupation on the son’s birth certificate in 1917?

Also..on what record do you have  ‘Gertrude’? Am only seeing Mary in 1921 & 1939
Answered later

[Mabel Bagshawe]

1911 has a Chas McGuinniss b c1873 Holborn who's a stoker in the navy. Given the age gap to his wife, he may have cut a few years off his age?

Might they have met and married in Gibraltar?

think this is the same chap in the workhouse, as there's a matching lad on the Training Ship Exmouth in 1888

Record states no parents, brother Alfred also in the union workhouse

[mckha489]

These two perhaps?

MCGUINESS, CHARLES  ALFRED     WARDEN 
GRO Reference: 1873  S Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 749

MCINNIS, ALFRED  THOMAS     WARDEN 
GRO Reference: 1876  D Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 824

[heywood]

There is a workhouse admission in 1880

Selina McGuiness, laundress b 1850
Charles b 1872
Alfred b 1876

[mckha489]

Additional child, in the 1879 workhouse admission

MCGINNISS, EMMA  ELIZABETH     WARDEN 
GRO Reference: 1875  M Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 812
 

Added, just realised looks like father is on that admission too.
Alfred b about 1848

[heywood]

There are several workhouse admissions for Selina in addition to the one I mentioned.
She is admitted with Alfred born abt 1849 and the two boys so might be worth exploring more.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Charles' dob from his navy records is 27 May 1872 - and he served until 1917 when discharged with deafness attributable to service