Complete blank for Charles Francis McGuinness -

[mckha489]

Need that 1917 birth cert to say something like “retired seaman” or “ navy pensioner”

[jonwarrn]

Was Mary born 13 January 1890 on the 1939 Register, living in Surrey?

Abit odd. There is a birth reg in Gibraltar of a Gertrude Mary McGuinness, born 13 January 1888
Father Francis
Mother Mary, maiden name Morgan
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN3-S3NX-1

The son's birth reg in 1917
MCGUINNESS, CHARLES  FRANCIS LEWIS    
Mother's Maiden Surname: O'MORGAN 
GRO Reference: 1917  M Quarter in ST. PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 40

[jonwarrn]

There is a birth reg in Gibraltar of a Gertrude Mary McGuinness, born 13 January 1888

Four of her sisters born in Gibraltar are together in Deptford in 1911.
Headed up by Kathleen.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRH-BCV

[mckha489]

Well, isn’t that interesting!

[Neale1961]

1939 register the widow Mary McGuiness has DOB 13 January 1890
On her probate she is named Gertrude Mary McGuiness

There is a Gertrude Mary McGuiness born in Gibraltar on 13 January 1888
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6269-K6YM?lang=en


 ?? Is it possible that Gertrude Mary and Charles didn’t marry, and for some reason went by her surname McGuiness.

I think you need to know what is on the birth rego, and marriage rego, for Charles Francis Lewis McGuinness.

[Neale1961]

Children of Francis McGuiness and Mary Morgan - Born in Gibraltar
(Both parents were Irish. Father was colour Serj 1/ 4 regiment -> canteen steward / manager -> pensioner)
•   Kathleen 1875
•   Mabel 1876 – died 1884
•   Male 11 Oct 1879
•   Norah Alice 1881
•   Winnifred 1883
•   Mary Frances 1885
•   Gertrude Mary born 13 January 1888
•   Edith Ellen 1889
•   John Hugh 1891
•   Aileen 1894
•   Agnes 1897

1878 census for Gibraltar
Also lists a couple of children born in England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6PVX-CLXP?lang=en
 :- Francis Thomas 1872;   Henry 1873

BIRTH REGOS
MCGUINNESS, FRANCIS  THOMAS            Mother - MORGAN 
GRO Reference: 1872  D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 415

MCGUINNESS, HENRY                               Mother - MORGAN   
GRO Reference: 1873  D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 423
   

Kathleen’s birth 1875 mentions parents’ names (Francis McGuiness and Mary Morgan) and maternal grandparents – Thomas Morgan and Bedina Hughes)

Mary McGuiness age 42, wife of Francis, death in Gibraltar 11th April 1897
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN3-33VG-G?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A62XL-HMZ5&cc=5000043&lang=en&groupId=M99Q-HP5

Francis McGuiness age 65 death in Gibraltar - 12 oct 1906
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNS-T9VB-T?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A62XV-WWCF&action=view&lang=en&groupId=M99Q-HTP

MARRIAGE 1869 DOVER
Mary MORGAN to Francis McGUINNESS

[Neale1961]

Four of her sisters born in Gibraltar are together in Deptford in 1911.
Headed up by Kathleen.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRH-BCV

Whole lot more of the McGuiness family born in Gibraltar in 1921 census in Wandsworth at 73 Larkhall Rise, Clapham.

[heywood]

Complicated but great finds - well done.

Added
There are a couple of military records (Fold3 and FindMyPast) for Francis McGuinness , born abt 1839, Derry Grimen, Fermanagh, 4 Foot, number 4162

[jonwarrn]

Is Charles McGuinness on the electoral registers at all?
He doesn't come up on a free search in 1921 (6 Albert Street, St Pancras), Mary does.