Burial of WILLIAM OLIVER SIMMONDS or SYMONDS, Newcastle Upon Tyne, 1812

[GeoffTurner]

Hi All,

I am an Australian descendant of Elizabeth Burrell (1781-1869) who married John Simmonds or Symonds at St John's, Newcastle, in 1798. They had five children, all baptised at All Saints, Newcastle:
Elizabeth born 3 Dec 1798 bapt 3 Mar 1799.
Mary born 13 Mar 1801 bapt 14 Nov 1802.
Jane born 7 Dec 1805 bapt 17 Aug 1806.
William Oliver born 24 Feb 1808 bapt 16 Oct 1808.
Ann born 23 Dec 1810 bapt 8 Sept 1811.

In 1813 Elizabeth nee Burrell was found guilty of having stolen "a piece of silk handkerchiefs" and transported to Australia for 7 years. I am descended from one of her Australian children.

Recently I have been trying to trace what happened to her English children, who she never saw again. I have followed the family of her eldest child, Elizabeth, down to her living descendants, two of whom now live in Australia. I have been in touch with one of these family members in England and one in Australia.

Mary's family is a work in progress and I fear the relevant Ancestry trees for them might be less reliable.

I have found very little on the families of Jane and Ann.

I have been told that William Oliver Simmonds/Symonds died in 1812, at the age of four. But I have not been able to find a burial for him. It may be that the burial is included in summaries to which I do not have access because of my Australian membership of Ancestry.

I wondered if anyone might be able to support that claim of a supposed 1812 burial with documentary evidence? I would be most grateful, as ever. 

Geoff Turner
Brisbane.

[emeltom]

Northumberland and Durham Family History Society has this burial

William Oliver Simmons, son of John, a basket maker, buried 31 January 1812, Ballast Hills Primitive Methodist, aged 4

[AlanBoyd]

I haven’t found the burial but—in case you don’t have it—this is a full transcript of the baptism:

16 Oct 1808 William Oliver Simmons, born 24 Feb, 2nd son of John Simmons (basketmaker, native of Morpeth, Northumberland) by his wife Elizabeth Burrell (daughter of William Burrell, maltman, [native] of this Parish)

This states that William Oliver was the 2nd son. I have found all of the other baptisms but have not found a candidate for the implied 1st son. From the dates of the others it seems most likely that the missing birth would have been between Mary and Jane.

[AlanBoyd]

update: found this at FindMyPast

First name(s)   William Oliver
Last name   Simmons
Birth year   1808
Age   4
Death year   1812
Burial year   1812
Burial date   31 Jan 1812
Relationship   Son of
Relative's first name(s)   John
Relative's last name   Simmons
Denomination   Non Conformist
Description   Ballast Hills Non Conformist
Place   Newcastle upon Tyne, Ballast Hills Primitive Methodist
County   Northumberland
Country   England
Notes   RelativeNotes=baskett maker
Archive   Tyne & Wear Archives
Document type   Parish Registers
Northumberland & Durham Family History Society reference   8916348
Record set   Northumberland Burials
Category   Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory   Parish Burials
Collections from   England, Great Britain

[GeoffTurner]

Re the “missing” first son. Might the first son have been an unbaptised stillbirth or infant death, do you think? So William would be the second birth but first baptism of a son?

[AlanBoyd]

Re the “missing” first son. Might the first son have been an unbaptised stillbirth or infant death, do you think? So William would be the second birth but first baptism of a son?

Yes, I had the same thought.

[GeoffTurner]

Thanks to you all for your help.

Geoff

[GeoffTurner]

One more quick one. John Millward Thompson. Died in Australia in 2006. Family says they celebrated his birthday on 11 November. Grave says he was born in 1914. His brother was born at Chester le  Street in 1917, so John was probably born there as well. Does anyone have access to a document showing John was born at Chester le Street on 11 Nov 1914? I don't have access to the 1921 census because of my Ancestry membership limitations. I couldn't find it in the other databases to which I have access. Thanks, Geoff

[mckha489]

What are the names of others who might be expected to be with him in 1921?
Not seeing any John Millward THOMPSON in GRO births.

there is this one - No Millward

Births Dec 1914   (>99%)
Thompson    John    Dunn    Chester le S.    10a   1213

I do see a John THOMPSON born Chester-le-Street age 6 yrs & 7 months in 1921, but I need more clues.

he has a brother Stanley 3 yrs 8 months. Perhaps this birth?

Births Dec 1917   (>99%)
Thompson    Stanley    Dunn    Chester-le-S.    10a   889