garden family

[dlj123]

i have robert garden as an ancester, he moved to orkney, and was quite famous as a trader. 1846-1912. he was married to margaret jolly with children mary, robert, barbara, margaret, edith, william, clara, eva and dora
born in rayne. i think his father john was married to barbara allan
can anybody help

[ysabeau]

Hi

Have found the following birth @ Rayne on SP :

17/08/1846 - Robert, son of John Garden/Barbara Allan

Neither trace of marriage of parents nor other children, up to/including 1854.

In 1871 census @ Braeside, Rayne have found :

Barbara Allan - unmarried - aged 57 years - washerwoman -born Rayne
Robert Garden - unmarried - aged 24 years - master Slater - born Rayne
John Wilson - unmarried - aged 20 years - Slater - born Rayne

[GEN10]

Hya ysabeau
Found this on the IGI.
Robert Garden married Margaret Jolly 16 SEP 1874   Kirkwall And St. Ola, Orkney, Scotland.
Is this your Robert and Margaret?
GEN10

[GEN10]

Hya dlj123 sorry the previous message was meant for you.
If your Robert died in Scotland in 1912 then his death certificate would surely have his parent's names on it. Mind you this would depend on who was giving the information to the registrars at the time of death.
GEN10

[ysabeau]

Hi

Interesting that Barbara had her place of birth as Rayne in census.

Checked IGI, between 1749 and 1819 there were altogether 28 Allan births - including 2 named Barbara, but as they were born 1755 and 1759, they can be ignored except perhaps as an indication that Barbara was a family name - and between 1820 and 1853 there were 5 births.

The only Garden birth recorded in these periods was Robert.

However, the 1841 census @ Rayne is enumerating a Peter Garden, aged 73 years and an Army pensioner plus his wife Elizabeth, aged 56 years........John's grandfather perhaps. Would explain his presence @ Rayne in the early 1840s.

My apologies.......I am taking over your posting !!!!!


Ysabeau

[dlj123]

Many thanks to you both have been away at sea hopefully home this week then can go through this info, definately sounds like the right direction
regards jon

[Mary Garden]

Robert Garden was illegitimate: his birth certificate says "born in uncleanness". However when his mother, Barbara Allan, moved to Orkney to join him (after he had begun his business) she pretended she was the widow of John Garden. This is also on Barbara's death certificate and Robert's marriage certificate to Margaret Jolly. However, John Garden (while he is there on Robert's birth certificate) married a Jean Lyons a few years later and they had one child. John died in the River Denburn in 1857. They had one son, and I've located a descendant living in Canada. That the John Garden's are one and the same, has been verified from several sources, including the witness at the christening of Robert Garden etc etc.

Robert Garden is a household name in the Orkneys and at the time of his death was known as the Merchant Prince of Orkney for his floating shops (ships) that serviced the Orkney Islands and north Scotland and his commercial trading. He had very little schooling and was a cattle boy for a few years, and then a slater etc. Quite a bit has been written about his rise from terrible poverty to immense wealth. (None of it filtered down to my family!). My grandfather was the eldest son, but was disinherited from the business sides of things. He ended up moving to New Zealand and cutting himself off from the Garden family. Long story.

If anyone is interested in the Garden tree let me know ... and any more info

Mary Garden - Australia

[katarina66]

I'm glad I found this.  I have writen a novel set in Orkney at the turn of the twentieth century.  I have gotten a little bit of my research wrong as I thought the founder of the floating shops was Robert Gardner or Gardener.  (Book's been published so too late to change it now.)  I was born on the island of Stroma and I remember my mother often mentioning a James Jolly.  (I think I may have Jollys in my tree, I'll need to check that)  What she did remember, and often talked about, was the floating shops of Kirkwall.  I would be very interested to find out more.