Author Topic: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.  (Read 199 times)

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #9 on: Friday 26 December 25 09:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you mckha for indicating the Will on FindMyPast and the Codicil

Gratton the Executor with the Will (or a Certified Copy of the Will) should have attended the Landowner's Estate Office or Court or Manor Court to have this potential Right to provide a house for Martha the Granddaughter and the Transfer recorded .

Because the Will also refers to the Approval of the Duke of Rutland, then the Landowner's Estate Office or Court or Manor Court Roll (a Roll or a Volume referred to as a Court Roll) that records the Estate Proceedings of the Landowner (His Grace) or Manor Court should have recorded this Transfer.

 ---------------

The Land Acts of the early 20th Century tried to do away with some old Rights.

There was a fairly recent Notice about a Deadline regarding some old Rights.

1870 Case
I am aware that our Family (on another Line of Ascent) went to the Manor Court after a Will was Proved, due to a death in 1870 regarding a Transfer of Property (from one family member to another) because they also had to be Admitted to the Manor.

The documents relating to the 1870 Will (incl Copy Will sent to the Manor Court) came up for Sale and I purchased them which was one half of the two way correspondence with the Manor.

I saw the other documents listed online created by the Manor regarding the family transfer (not seen).

Mark

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #10 on: Friday 26 December 25 09:29 GMT (UK) »
Some records for the Duke of Rutland came under Belvoir Castle and it seems the records are at more than one archive.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_ro=any&_q=%22Belvoir+Castle%22


Thank you very much. Do you know if any are online yet. The nationalarchives main site is loading right now, but the discovery. part is not. And I think I will wait until later in the day so I have time to go through it thoroughly.

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #11 on: Friday 26 December 25 09:31 GMT (UK) »

Not sure if answered, but leaving his mark would strongly suggest he could not sign his name.

Thank you. I always assumed that on records from the U.S. and Ireland, but I wasn't sure what the custom was on English wills.

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #12 on: Friday 26 December 25 09:36 GMT (UK) »
Did you see pages 1 & 2 on FindMyPast?  click on the little arrow to page through to the next pages.
This is the crucial one
3rd page

Thank you very much for this. The first page came from a tree on ancestry - the owner of the tree had used it for an image of Joseph. A 3rd cousin found the 2nd page. I was going to ask him to look for the 3rd page sometime after the busy holiday times settled down. I think he might have found page 2 on findmypast.

It looks like my James Gratton didn't get his 5 pounds until his mother died in 1838.


Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #13 on: Friday 26 December 25 09:40 GMT (UK) »
@MollyC and others:

Thank you for the thorough explanation of the possible landholding arrangements. I was unfamiliar with these types of landholding and will have to go over the information and look up some of the terms to sort it all out.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #14 on: Friday 26 December 25 09:47 GMT (UK) »
You will need to make enquiries with the various Record Offices in that link, is a place to start.

The National Archives used to have the Manorial Register but not every Repository or Archives holding surviving documents of a particular manor are listed on their Register.

Just the Indexes for some of these Landowner Manor collections go to many volumes on Archive shelves.

It might also be the case that the Family still hold the Records at their Family Seat or an Approved Place of Deposit hold the Records on their behalf.

Mark

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #15 on: Friday 26 December 25 10:42 GMT (UK) »
You will need to make enquiries with the various Record Offices in that link, is a place to start.
Got it, thanks.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #16 on: Friday 26 December 25 14:02 GMT (UK) »
Hello

There are two other things that you may be able to do from home:-

1) I am not saying it was Copyhold, but online newspapers may advertise a later Sale of a property and see what the advert states.

However it was Leasehold or another Tenure from the Manor, there will be no advert.

2) the other one that will cost about £30 or so, that may or may not, add a few notes to your Will.


There are some Inland Revenue Duty Registers for 1830 (the Probate Year) and these Volumes for 1830 seem to be under these headings:-

Will Register
Reversionary Register
Administration Register


1830 in the IR 27/213 Index (year and reference from f m p) Image attached

Your fella Joseph Gratton was Registered for the possible payment of Duty

The image (on f m p listed as 1830) says:-

GRATTON Joseph, Jos: Gratton, Brendwood Gate, Derby, Lichfield, Register 3, 372 [the last digit seems to be a tick]
See 2 attachment snippets (from f m p)

Because yours is a Will and TNA don't list the Register number, it might be in the IR Will Registers.

We have also found all our Wills in the IR Will Register Volumes and have ordered some from TNA, Kew, official gov.uk web site.

In their Discovery catalogue sign in, and find catalogue reference IR 26/1225 in the Discovery "Any of these references" box you should get ...

IR 26/1225
Will Register : Surnames E - G, folios 345 - 519
Date 1830

You can visit in person (with all the relevant photo and address ID they require) check if document requires advance order.

Or use the catalogue link and if you wish you can order a page check for £8.40 (to check if the entry is in this Volume) state the name place and information from the Index and especially the Folio reference number and the type of image you want a price for:-
Colour digital image sent by link, or
Colour or B & W paper print posted.

Within a month you will get an email saying the entry was found, sign in again on Discovery and a price is given if you wish to proceed.

I cannot guarantee 100% that your £8.40 spent will find it, but we have managed to order the correct entry each time and gain the odd snippet of extra information.

The scan may not add much more to the Will.

There are I.R. internal reference numbers starting with two number digits, which refer to year events e.g., 60/---------- referred to 1860, a death year of a family member.

On some of mine there are handwritten summary notes, as though the Inland Revenue are tracking where the money is going with family names, who is inheriting, their address and other bits of information and references to other volumes, surname initial, year and Folio number.

Mark

Slide the images over to see all columns

Added:
We usually find the digital Colour image/s are clear and readable and can be saved etc.

Online MollyC

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Re: Joseph Gratton's will, 1829, d 1830. A few questions.
« Reply #17 on: Friday 26 December 25 15:15 GMT (UK) »
The will was written at Greater Barlow.
The Inland Revenue reference is to Brendwood Gate, Derby, Lichfield.
Here is Great Barlow on a map surveyed in 1876 which has Brandwoodgate in the centre.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.0&lat=53.28107&lon=-1.49936&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

It is in north Derbyshire but was in the diocese of Lichfield, Staffordshire, perhaps 50 miles to the south, which would have dealt with probate of wills up to 1857.  The various large font styles on the map show that Barlow was a township, Great Barlow was a hamlet in the parish of Staveley and Little Barlow was a hamlet in the parish of Dronfield.
(Note there is a Rutland Terrace between Brandwoodgate and Barlow village.)