Winifred Frader (Winnie) B1889 is Missing

[Richard19]

They were married in Bangor, Caernarvonshire so you may well be right that the witnesses won't be family of friends - unless Winnie was from Bangor !!- I haven't found any evidence to support that but it's a very valid point and all depends on what's actually on the cert. 

Just butting in, if Winifred really was from South Wales as Johnny was,  it's not likely that any of the wittnesses would be relatives. According to local (Wrexham)  accounts he moved  to Wrexham in 1911. It's a  waiting game.😉

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/15941631.achievements-of-wrexham-sports-legend-to-take-pride-of-place-at-towns-boxing-club/

[jonwarrn]

Here's hoping SS is right (he usually is!)
And Johnny seems to have had great appeal, so anything is possible.
Though I fully understand it is a theory, not a statement of fact.

From time to time on here we do come across a lady who appears to have left their family, usually there seems to have been a complete wall of silence about it.

Anyway, I am sure Richard will find the marriage certificate fascinating when it arrives!

[Richard19]

Heres Winiie's marriage details

Winnie Frader (spinster) age 23 was married by licence on 13 March 1914 in Bangor Roman Catholic Chapel, Pendref to John Michal Basham (bachelor and General Labourer -age not clear but looks to be recorded as 23 - he was 25 at the time)
John Michael was living at the Catholic Rectory Bangor at the time - his father Edward Basham (Labourer)
Winnie was living at Friars House, High Stret, Bangor at the time, her father Elias Frader (a Cattle dealer)
SS may well be right on the name change
Witnesses were Ella M Howell and William Dempsey.

I'm not sure if I'll get any further with knowing the name of Winnie's father (Elias).

Here's hoping SS is right (he usually is!)
And Johnny seems to have had great appeal, so anything is possible.
Though I fully understand it is a theory, not a statement of fact.

From time to time on here we do come across a lady who appears to have left their family, usually there seems to have been a complete wall of silence about it.

Anyway, I am sure Richard will find the marriage certificate fascinating when it arrives!

[jonwarrn]

Hi
Thanks very much for letting us know the details.

I wonder who is named as her father in 1914, would be good if it was Elias, occupation Butcher

Father is named Elias. Cattle dealer, well I guess that's what a butcher is, in a way! Anyway, a similar line of business.
I think SS called it right, well done!

[softly softly]

Im convinced if nobody else is. Greetings from Scotland, here to see grandchildren, what a joy

SS

[jonwarrn]

Hogmanay greetings to you, SS.
We look forward to your new year predictions!

I wonder where Winnie got the Frader name from? Strange one.
John

[wilcoxon]

Maybe Winifred thought Frader was a nicer name than Gamage, Elias as her father sounds pretty good, did she say he was deceased ?

Just a few weeks after the marriage. Not much help really. Winifred could just have been staying there,  or possibly the prevous housemaid waitress and had now  left.

North Wales Chronicle 9 April 1914

Wanted young Girl, 18, to attend to children also young person, about 24, as
House maid 'Waitress; references required. — Apply, Mrs Brennan, Friars House, High-street, Bangor

APARTMENTS TO LET "FRIARS HOUSE" BOARDING Establishment, large comfortable rooms, every accommodation; special cuisine; terms reasonable.—Full particulars, apply, Mrs Brennan, High-street, Bangor.

Happy New Year from Wales 

.

[Richard19]

Sorry - yes she did say her father was deceased

I'd really prefer more proof of the Frader / Gamage connection before adding this to my tree but in 1891 and 1911 she is just called Winifred so I'll follow the siblings to see if I can find anything to support Softly Softly's theory

I've got no proof yet but suspect Winnie was with Johnny in Newport, Monmouthshire in 1913

Maybe Winifred thought Frader was a nicer name than Gamage, Elias as her father sounds pretty good, did she say he was deceased ?

Just a few weeks after the marriage. Not much help really. Winifred could just have been staying there,  or possibly the prevous housemaid waitress and had now  left.

North Wales Chronicle 9 April 1914

Wanted young Girl, 18, to attend to children also young person, about 24, as
House maid 'Waitress; references required. — Apply, Mrs Brennan, Friars House, High-street, Bangor

APARTMENTS TO LET "FRIARS HOUSE" BOARDING Establishment, large comfortable rooms, every accommodation; special cuisine; terms reasonable.—Full particulars, apply, Mrs Brennan, High-street, Bangor.

Happy New Year from Wales 

.

SS

[Richard19]

I hope you're enjoying Scotland and many thanks for your suggestion - it looks like a good call

Im convinced if nobody else is. Greetings from Scotland, here to see grandchildren, what a joy

SS