WW2 no service record?

[rafcommands]

Yes all Army Other Ranks/NCO records upto end of National Service have been transferred to TNA from MoD.

TNA has yet to complete opening catalogue entries on Discovery on all WO series currently with Series Descriptions.

TNA has yet to designate reserved WO series for all the records received eg No WO yet for Guards etc.

So search on Discovery that you could do as an individual may not find a name of a record that has been transferred.

Search on Discovery by TNA internal search may not find a name of a record that has been transferred as it is still on pallet and has no WO allotted yet.

Current procedure is to use .GOV online method to apply to MoD. Army Disclosures will check index and state where the record is eg TNA or MoD. Most importantly if transferred to TNA then Army Disclosures will give the reference number that will allow TNA to locate an currently uncatalogued file on a particular pallet.

Note as well that main indexing by both MoD and TNA is on Full Birth Names and attested Date of Birth. Giving family known name or common short eg James John known as John to everyone, Ted for Edward etc will end up with a "no record" return. As will if the person lied about actual date of birth to enlist.

Ross

[rafcommands]

Stutter by site on upload

[ValJJJ]

Thanks Rena - exactly. I think the family built up this mystery around the default secrecy imposed on all those serving.

Rafcommand - that is very useful info/advice. Thanks.

[ValJJJ]

Success, possibly.  Using FoI for the National Archive, they promptly found a service record for the correct name, correct birth day and month, but the year they have noted is wrong by three years 1884 instead of 1887.  4 and 7 can be hard to distinguish in some handwriting, and they say there could be typos.  I've ordered the record so will soon know if it is the right person.

Thanks rafcommands for explaining how to go about this. 

Once I see the report (in a few weeks) I'll update here regarding whether his service was any more secret than any  other.

[rafcommands]

Great stuff - onward and upward.

Glad you have also managed to request copy before the new fee scale kicks in Feb26.

Ross

[ValJJJ]

A new fee scale?  Can you point me to a link about this please?  Is this a research fee or a copying fee?

I will be viewing it at the National Archives, so no fee is involved.

[rafcommands]

General Copy fee increases but also scroll down to a specific bit on TNA search and copy of MoD Service Records.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/legal/our-fees/#guide

If you are doing a few service records contained in WO420/421/422 and in the next few years WO419 then ancestry membership will be cheaper (these are pruned to exclude medical/criminal pages) but have ancestry added value of hyperlink to named father/mother/spouse.

Cheapest way is to visit TNA in person - then no TNA search fee and if you take own images then copy free. Ancestry without membership is also free access via TNA corporate visitor login from Reading Rooms and General TNA areas.

Ross

[ValJJJ]

Thanks.  Yes visiting TNA next week, and been there before using their computers and their reading room. It's a brilliant facility.

Edit: I've ordered the record from WO 423

[ValJJJ]

Success.  The record was for the correct person, and the wrong year of birth (1894 instead of 1897 as on his birth cert) stated on all the documents, so it wasn't a typo.  I can't see any reason for him to have lied about his year of birth. He would have been old enough to enlist in WW1 so would not have needed to lie then. In WW2 perhaps it was better to be older, to avoid seeing action?

The attestation showed him signed up for 4 years service in the Territorial Army Reserve (National Defence Company) in June 1939. He declared being in the 1st Cambridgeshire Regt in 1914, and in the Royal Engineers in 1919.

The file of papers included his service record and various loose documents, from which I've summarised:

1940 posted to 9th Suffolk Regt
1941 June - letter from Cambridge police saying he appears to be a suitable person for the blue caps
Jun 1941 transferred to the Corps of Military Police, Bournemouth. VP [=vulnerable points wing]
Sep. Posted Eastern Command. Depot. Auth. APM/VP 5/41 + Coast/Adm/B/VP/146
May 1942 posted to 302 Company (VP)
Oct 1942 Posted to Y list
Dec 1942 Posted to 302 Company (VP)
Feb 1943 Signed official secrets act
June 1943 303 Company (VP)
April 1944 304 Company (VP)
June 1944 303 Company (VP)
14 Jan 1945 395 Company (VP)
23 Jan 1945 303 Company (VP)
Feb 1945 416 Company (VP)
May 1945 375 Company (VP)
July 45 Y List
Sep 45 Discharged as permanently unfit for any form of military service. ex 375 Company VP CMP
Noted that 'disability under 20% Unconnected E.5.'

If anyone has insights on the above abbreviations, that would be useful.  eg unconnected E.5.

Were any of these companies posted overseas?  Are there any accounts of where these companies operated?

Bournemouth cropped up a few times - seems to be the location of admin for CMP personnel.

It appears he was not part of the special ops wing of CMP (as speculated by his family), so that's one question answered.