Author Topic: Help with my Grandad's WW2 records  (Read 143 times)

Offline K127

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Help with my Grandad's WW2 records
« on: Friday 12 December 25 11:00 GMT (UK) »
After 14 months I finally received my grandad's WW2 records! Hurrah! I've tried to decipher it but would appreciate any help clarifying a few things before I share it with the family. Thank you!

From what I understand, Grandad was a Storeman, part of the Royal Army Ordnance Corps, 56th (1st London) Division. He seems to have spent the first couple of years in the UK and then on to Egypt/Iraq/Italy.

I've attached 4 pages.

Q - on Pg 1, on the right hand side of the page, on 18.10.39 he was classified as a Class III storeman after training. But there are a few letters before 'Class III'. Is this some kind of indication of a type of thing he was supplying? From what I've seen different storemen were responsible for different types of supplies (clothing, ammo, etc) but I might have misunderstood.

Q - I'm trying to understand the detailed timeline on pg3.  Don't know if anyone can shed any light on:
      > There's a line halfway down that says something like "Adm (?) to 8SA CCS". What does this mean?
      > A few lines after that (date 28/3/44) it says "moved from ??? on TOS ME". What might that ??? be, please?
     > The line 3 rows up from the bottom starts "T.T......ST/I" and then below "Re-???? ST/CGI" Can anyone shed any light on this?
     > Last line, what does 491 Coy RASC mean?

Q - He seems to be linked to the RAOS & 56th (London), but also at times PAIFORCE, MEF & BNAF. Would that just mean that the whole of the 56th were deployed with PAIFORCE etc etc?

I'd dearly love to know more detail about where he was specifically and what they were up to - would there be a good resource to go to?

Apologies for any daft/obvious questions!
Thank you. :)



Offline K127

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Re: Help with my Grandad's WW2 records
« Reply #1 on: Friday 12 December 25 11:00 GMT (UK) »
Two additional pages which might help.

Thank you in advance! :)

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help with my Grandad's WW2 records
« Reply #2 on: Friday 12 December 25 13:49 GMT (UK) »
He came out of the trade training school as a Storeman Group C class III. He was then reclassified on 6.1.40 as a Storeman class II (this will have been on the basis of experience in his trade and was not the result of a formal test or examination). There is no indication of the kind of stores he would have been dealing with. In theory it could have been anything which the RAOC handled, which doesn't narrow it down much!

He was admitted to 8 SA Casualty Clearing Station on 9.8.43. It doesn't say when he was discharged. A Casualty Clearing Station is/was a forward Royal Army Medical Corps unit which was the first step in the medical chain. Because he didn't get referred back up the medical chain, whatever he was suffering from can't have been serious. This is likely to have been some illness, not a battlefield injury as PAIFORCE were not in contact with the enemy. I have no idea what "SA" stands for.  The war diaries for 8 CCS are in the National Archives and they don't include SA in the unit title.
 
28/3/44 I can't decipher the word after 'moved from...' but the next bit is Taken On Strength (TOS) M[iddle] E[ast] [Force]. I assume the missing word is a place.

TTQ (trade training qualification) upgraded to ST[oreman] I [class I]. The next line notes that his trade was redesignated Storeman CG (Career Group) class 1.

The last line means that he was posted to 491 Company Royal Army Service Corps. The RASC and the RAOC  worked very closely together, as the RASC was responsible for transporting virtually all the stores that the RAOC supplied. This means that he was attached to the RASC company, which in turn would probably have been responsible for re-supplying a brigade. By this time they were fighting in Italy. This may have been because of his specialist knowledge of the type of commodity which the RASC company was responsible for supplying, Petrol, Oils and Lubricants (POL) or heavy ammunition for the Royal Armoured Corps or the Royal Artillery, for example.

Finally you asked about the relationship between 56 (London) Div and PAIFORCE, MEF and BNAF. The Division consisted of a number of units which were grouped together in a fighting formation. The types of unit might vary depending on the sort of military operations being undertaken. The other organisations, such as PAIFORCE, BNAF etc, were largely administrative structures based within a particular location, so PAIFORCE for Persia and Iraq, BNAF for North Africa, and MEF for the Mediterranean area from Gibraltar to Cyprus and including Egypt, Greece and Italy. They handled things like reinforcements, casualty evacuation, shipping, sourcing local supplies and services, in-theatre training, rest and recuperation facilities and so on, leaving the Divisions to get on with tactical matters. 


Offline K127

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Re: Help with my Grandad's WW2 records
« Reply #3 on: Friday 12 December 25 14:14 GMT (UK) »
Andy - thank you for this, it's all really clear and very helpful!

If I wanted to look in a little more detail, would I be trying to find a war diary for 56th (London) Div and that should also cover their attachment to PAIFORCE, 491 RASC etc? I suppose what I really want to do is follow where in Egypt/Italy etc he was. I have a photo of him and his unit (?) in Forli, Italy, for example, but that's the only photo I have that's got a location on it.

Thank you!


Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help with my Grandad's WW2 records
« Reply #4 on: Friday 12 December 25 15:06 GMT (UK) »
You could start with 56 Div, altough, initially, I wouldn't advise using the war diaries for tracking them, as that would be at too high a level. His RAOC unit was probably the 56 Divisional Ordnance Field Park, so you could take a look at their war diaries Dec 1942 and 1943 but because they haven't been digitised yet that would mean a visit to TNA at Kew or arranging for a researcher to look on your behalf. But before doing either of those things, it might be worth checking the diaries are not on Ancestry, even though the TNA site doesn't mention that they are.
I am slightly surprised that if the 56 Divisional Ordnance Field Park was his unit, why that isn't explicitly stated on his record, rather than HQ 56 Div.
Once he got to Italy in around September 1943 it is probably worth referring to the general history of 56 Division (eg here) as well as more general histories of the Italian campaign, to gain an idea of where he might have been at any given time.
Obviously his transfer to 491 Coy RASC was after the end of hostilities so you probably won't find a war diary for 491 Coy covering that period.
And another place worth considering for research is the website of Royal Logistics Corps Museum at Worthy Down in Hampshire. As they say on the website "The archive team are [...] more likely to be able to report on a unit’s activity or history, rather than the story of an individual soldier

Offline K127

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Re: Help with my Grandad's WW2 records
« Reply #5 on: Friday 12 December 25 17:32 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Andy, will do. Really appreciate it.