Author Topic: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485  (Read 132 times)

Offline JustinL

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Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« on: Tuesday 18 November 25 12:56 GMT (UK) »
I would be very grateful for a typed version and translation of this entry from the roll of common pleas of 1485.

I understand that Richard Natsale was a collector of rents, which probably explains this debt case.

Here is a link to the original image https://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/aalt/cp40_link.php?folder=115&image=1108

Many thanks,

Justin


Offline Bookbox

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 18 November 25 15:33 GMT (UK) »
[margin] Berk’

Ricardus Natsale per Thomam Vyncent attorn(atum) suu(m) op(tulit) se iiijto die v(er)sus Will(el)m(um) Wynterburn nup(er) de Grove

in p(ar)ochia de Wantyng in Com(itatu) p(re)d(i)c(t)o husbandman  Et v(er)sus Joh(ann)em Kete nup(er) de Westildesley in Com(itatu)

p(re)d(i)c(t)o husbandman de pl(ac)ito q(uo)d ut(er)q(ue) eor(um) reddat ei quadraginta solidos quos ei debent & iniuste detine(n)t

&c  Et ip(s)i non ven(erunt)  Et sicut plur(a) prec(eptum) fuit vic(ecomiti) q(uo)d cap(er)et eos si &c  Et salvo &c  Ita q(uo)d h(ab)eret corpora

eor(um) hic ad hunc diem scil(ice)t a die Pasche in quinq(ue) septimanas &c  Et vic(ecomes) modo mand(at) q(uo)d non

sunt inventi &c  I(de)o prec(eptum) est vic(ecomiti) q(uo)d exigi fac(eat) eos de Com(itatu) in Com(itatum) quousq(ue) &c utlagent(ur) si non &c

Et si &c tunc eos capiat  Et salvo &c  Ita q(uo)d h(ab)eat corpora eor(um) hic in Octabis s(an)c(t)i Martini  Et

unde &c.


Richard Natsale presented himself on the fourth day, through Thomas Vyncent his attorney, against William Wynterburn lately of Grove in the parish of Wantyng/Wantage in the aforesaid county, husbandman, and against John Kete lately of West Ilsley in the aforesaid county, husbandman, in a plea whereby each of them should pay him forty shillings which they owe him and unlawfully withhold, etc. And they did not come. And, just as on many occasions, the sheriff was ordered to arrest them if [they were found in his jurisdiction] etc., and safely [keep them] etc., so that he should have their bodies here on this day, namely within five weeks of Easter Day etc. And the sheriff now reports that they have not been found [in his jurisdiction], etc. Therefore, the sheriff is ordered to have them exacted from county to county until they are outlawed etc. if [they do] not [appear] etc., and if [they do appear] etc. he should arrest them and safely [keep them] etc., so that he should have their bodies here within the Octave of St Martin. And whereupon, etc.

Note - the Latin wording is standard for this sort of plea, and heavily abbreviated, so I have added a few words in square brackets to help the sense.

ADDED
The wording suggests that there should be previous and subsequent entries in the plea rolls for this suit.

Offline Vance Mead

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 18 November 25 15:38 GMT (UK) »
Berks. Richard Natsale by Thomas Vyncent his attorney presents himself on the 4th day versus William Wynterburn, once of Grove in the parish of Wantyng (Wantage), in the county aforesaid, husbandman; and versus John Kete of West Ildesley (West Ilsley), in the county aforesaid, husbandman, of a plea that either of them pays 40 shillings which the owe him and unjustly retain. They didn’t come (to court) as several times previously.

There is no indication here about the cause of the debt.

There are indexes for the case between Natsale and Wynterburn and Kete back to 1483. 
https://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/aalt/cp40_search.php?s=1&surname=Natsale&forename=Richard&soundexplace=1&place=&after=&before=&county=0
Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs

Offline JustinL

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 18 November 25 16:03 GMT (UK) »
Incredible. Thank you both very much.

Here is the first entry from 1483 (883), and two more from 1484 (890).

Do they provide any further details?


Offline Vance Mead

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 18 November 25 16:13 GMT (UK) »
The lower one is the same. The upper one is essentially the same but there is another defendant, Thomas Mariote, of Grove, ploughwright.
Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 18 November 25 16:21 GMT (UK) »
In the first one (883), Wynterborne owes £10, Mariote owes £9, and Kete owes 40 shillings.

Offline JustinL

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 18 November 25 16:42 GMT (UK) »
Thank again for the additional detail.

This last snippet is of an action in 1482 against William Wynterbourn, miller of Grove, for trespass. Presumably, this is not the debtor in the other pleas.

Offline Vance Mead

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 18 November 25 16:54 GMT (UK) »
It might be another family member - cousin, father, etc. On the other hand, most people had more more than one source of income, combining agriculture with being a weaver, carpenter, shoemaker, etc. So they might be identified in different ways in different contexts.
Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs

Offline JustinL

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Re: Entry in Plea Roll of 1485
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 13:44 »
I have attempted to transcribe that last plea. I would greatly appreciate any corrections.

Johannes Kentwode et Elisabeth uxor eius per attorn(atum) suo(s) op(tulerunt) se iiijto die v(er)sus Will(el)m(um) Wynterbourn nup(er)
de Grove in Com(itatu) p(re)d(i)c(t)o {myller} de pl(ac)ito t(ra)nsgr(essi)o(nis). Et ipse non venit. Et preceptum fuit vicecomiti q(uo)d {caperet}
eum. &c Et vicecomes retorn(avit) q(uo)d ipse non est invent(us) &c I(de)o sicut alias preceptum est vicecomiti q(uo)d {capiat eum}
si &c Et salvo &c Ita quod h(ab)eat corpus eius coram D(omi)no Rege a die Pasche in xv dies
ubicumque &c.