A Great Grandfather Mystery (Help please)

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
I know it's a bit late but I have some more on the Jenkins /Mansell bit.

The marriage is over at Wrexham 20.6.1831
Mary Mansell and James Jackyns but looking at the original Jenkyns of Oswestry
wit David Roberts and Eliza? Mansell .
The Mansell girls signed but were a bit shakey with their signatures.
It was by licence and they were bach and spinster.

Mary was born 3rd Sep  baptised 24.9.1799 at the Congregational chapel Oswestry d of Richard and Elizabeth Mansell of Kinnersley (farmer and nee Davies on siblings records).

Richard Mansell married Elizabeth Davies 5.2.1799 at Melverley Shrops .Wit William and Sarah Mansell.
Children Mary 1799 ,Margaret 19.1/16.2.1801 ,Richard 18.10/8.12.1802 ,Thomas 10.3./15.5.1804 ,Elizabeth 17.1/22.3.1807 ,William 19.4.1818 at Kinnerley .

Hope that helps

Ciderdrinker

[Cas (stallc)]

Well found ciderdrinker, the marriage bond (licence) at NLW has him as Jenkyns

Jenkyns, James, bach., Oswestry, Shropshire to Mansell, Mary, sp., Wrexham, Denbighshire : 1831 Jun 20. ARCHIVES ; St. Asaph A 173/98

Marriage - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62103/records/840847

Licence - https://discover.library.wales/permalink/44WHELF_NLW/cn21ca/alma99162947702419

[ciderdrinker]

Good Work
Great find that marriage bond.

James seems to have been a bit of a naughty boy.
Son James bapt 4.11.1821 s of James Jenkins servant Church St Sweeney
                                         and Ann Bright.
The baby died aged 7months 15.4.1822

That's the earliest I can see him.

Ciderdrinker

[Cas (stallc)]

There is a Richard Mansell b c 1777 retired farmer  living in Kinton in census b Kinnerley, dies in 1870 but does not state married or widowed. Up to Ed if thinks there is a connection.

Ed - Pro tools for a month (£7.99) can be a positive as it shows match relationships and gives the smaller under 20cMs. If connected by DNA to this family there must be at least a few small matches to the name Mansell maybe.

[mr_edd]

Fantastic work Cas & Ciderdrinker, thank you so much.

Of course what is key for me now is to see if there is anything in payment books for Oswestry Workhouse held at Powys for payments made to Joseph & Elizabeth Jones to pay for the Child's board.

[Cas (stallc)]

Just for info, it seems boarding out was not an official practice until around 1868

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/boardingout/

[mr_edd]

Hi Cas

I have read online that in the 1850s/1860s there were some informal arrangements made by the Guardians. I am told that the payment books from Oswestry from 1852 are at Powys & should give the names of the fostering families.

[Cas (stallc)]

A little thought scenario...

There is nothing to state he was left in the workhouse, only the birth which Elizabeth/Betsy would have used for birth/maternity care, as was the case for the poor outside of home delivery at that time.

As mentioned, it could be possible that Betsy sent money for his care. When infants it was called nurse child.

The info found by Ciderdrinker, reply #20, that father James was living Church Street, SWEENEY in 1821 and family at Church Street in 1841 and 1851 it is a very good possible that the Jones knew the family, or knew of them. (Family were also innkeepers/publicans)

Also as mentioned there is a good possible that he may have a Jones father that is connected to Joseph or Elizabeth. Hence the Jones surname.  I would think to try prove/disprove this is Edwards bio family, would be through DNA, as that is the only truth teller nobody can escape from.

Just a few thoughts....

[mr_edd]

Hi Cas

Joseph's wife Elizabeth born, Oswestry c1821, had a brother Edward born Oswestry 1810
In the 1871 Elizabeth's brother Edward Jones is at the top of the page aged 61 unmarried followed by Joseph Jones & Elizabeth Jones 1821 (so Joseph's wife / Edward's sister) then followed by Edward Jones my Great Grandfather.

At the foot of the prior page is Elizabeth 1821 & Edward 1810s mother aged 81 born Oswestry, she was born about 1791 in another twist she was an ELLIS & married David Jones an AG LAB from Sweeney.

The witnesses at Edward Jnr's 1876 marriage were Eliza Jones (probably Elizabeth) & an Edward Jones, I have never found a third Edward Jones so I guess he is Elizabeth's brother, he could be the father?