Please can anyone help with aalt Plea Role relationships?

[emjsw]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me please?

I have tried looking for words that may give an idea to the relationships between people mentioned in the Plea Rolls. I have been trying to use Google Translate from Latin to English but it makes no sense, I think because it is hard to know what some of the letters in each word are.

In 1 & 2 I am trying to find how Nicholas Tooly of Burmington and John Busbye of Cleveley are related (I suspect cousins by marriage - John Busbye is the son of William Busby, William Busby had a brother called John and this John has a daughter [Christian name unknown] that married Nicolas Busby [no source found but John's widow Agnes calls Nicholas her son in her 1557/8 will, he is either from an unknown 1st marriage or he married a Busby).

1) CP 40/1295 (Michaelmas 1571) [Index at AALT | Image at AALT]
County: London; Persons: John Busbye; Nicholas Tooly; Places: Cleveley; Burmyngton
2) CP 40/1296 (Michaelmas 1571) [Index at AALT | Image at AALT]
County: London; Persons: John Busbye; Nicholas Tooley; Places: Cleveley; Burmyngton

In 3 & 4 I am wondering whether there is any indication as to how William, John and Nicholas Tooley are related.

3) CP 40/1507 (Hilary 1593) [Index at AALT | Image at AALT]
County: London; Persons: William Tooley; John Watson; Christopher Humfrey; Susan Humfrey; Nicholas Tooley; John Tooley; Places: London; Burmyngton; Birmington
4) CP 40/1509 (Hilary 1593) [Index at AALT | Image at AALT]
County: London; Persons: William Tooley; John Watson; Christopher Humfrey; Susan Humfrey; Nicholas Tooley; John Tooley; Places: London; Burmyngton

Thank you for taking the time to read my message
Best wishes,
Emma

Link - https://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/aalt/cp40_search.php?s=1&soundexsurname=1&surname=&soundexforename=1&forename=&place=burmyngton&after=&before=&county=0

[horselydown86]

I'm afraid that there are no explicit statements of relationships in either of your pairs of cases.

This is normal for the Common Pleas.  Unless the relationship between people is inextricably linked to the matter in dispute there is normally no mention of relationships.

I am working at present on pleas involving John Curson of Kedleston and Alice Curson, Widow.  Alice is John's mother but that is not mentioned.

In 3 & 4 William Tooley has died intestate and John Watson is the administrator of his goods and chattells.  Christopher Humfrey and Susanna his wife are co-administrators with John Watson (stated in 4).

Nicholas and John Tooley are both gentlemen of Burmyngton in the County of Warr.  Note that Nicholas is also said to be recently of London.

[emjsw]

I'm afraid that there are no explicit statements of relationships in either of your pairs of cases.

This is normal for the Common Pleas.  Unless the relationship between people is inextricably linked to the matter in dispute there is normally no mention of relationships.

I am working at present on pleas involving John Curson of Kedleston and Alice Curson, Widow.  Alice is John's mother but that is not mentioned.

In 3 & 4 William Tooley has died intestate and John Watson is the administrator of his goods and chattells.  Christopher Humfrey and Susanna his wife are co-administrators with John Watson (stated in 4).

Nicholas and John Tooley are both gentlemen of Burmyngton in the County of Warr.  Note that Nicholas is also said to be recently of London.

Hi,

Thanks ever so much for taking the time to have a look, I appreciate your help.
It is good to know that relationships are not usually defined in the please as now I can spend my time looking at other sources of info.
Thank you for the additional information about William, that is really helpful, I will look into the Humfrey connection incase Susanna is William's daughter. I can also now check Boyd's Inhabitants of London to look for Nicholas, you never know he may pop up!

Thanks again, I am very grateful for your help.

Best wishes
Emma

[horselydown86]

Christopher Humfrey and Susanna his wife are co-administrators with John Watson (stated in 4).

I think that I have this statement slightly wrong, so a correction is required.

I think the Latin word used is: coadministratrici

This is singular, which means that Susanna is a co-administrator with John Watson but her husband Christopher Humfrey, while still a party to the matter, is not a co-administrator with John.

I hope I have it right this time.  Unfortunately, it's not the clearest document on AALT.

[Bookbox]

I think the Latin word used is: coadministratrici

This is singular, which means that Susanna is a co-administrator with John Watson but her husband Christopher Humfrey, while still a party to the matter, is not a co-administrator with John.

I hope I have it right this time.  Unfortunately, it's not the clearest document on AALT.

I agree with this - and also that the image is rather fuzzy, surprisingly so for AALT.

[emjsw]

Christopher Humfrey and Susanna his wife are co-administrators with John Watson (stated in 4).

I think that I have this statement slightly wrong, so a correction is required.

I think the Latin word used is: coadministratrici

Thank you very much for going back in and confirming, that is great.

This is singular, which means that Susanna is a co-administrator with John Watson but her husband Christopher Humfrey, while still a party to the matter, is not a co-administrator with John.

I hope I have it right this time.  Unfortunately, it's not the clearest document on AALT.

[emjsw]

I think the Latin word used is: coadministratrici

This is singular, which means that Susanna is a co-administrator with John Watson but her husband Christopher Humfrey, while still a party to the matter, is not a co-administrator with John.

I hope I have it right this time.  Unfortunately, it's not the clearest document on AALT.

I agree with this - and also that the image is rather fuzzy, surprisingly so for AALT.

Thank you very much for taking a look and confirming. All the best Emma