Smith's help!

[wilcoxon]

Just posting this as a ref:, it may or maynot be the correct 1871 census re opening post

Smiths Court, Manchester, Lancashire, England

Manchester rate books (dated in September 1871 and September 1872)
1871 has John Smith at 2 Smith Court
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6XWV-J1

1872 has Mary Smith at 2 Smith Court
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6GG9-S21

Had John died?
Mind you, all the other names are different.

Add in (October) 1873, no Smiths
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6FQ9-BS

Possibly
John Smith b c 1841.
Death Lancs Free Bmd .
SMITH John 30 1872 AncoatsArchives+, Manchester Central LibraryANC/115/94

[wilcoxon]

Just posting this as a ref:, it may or maynot be the correct 1871 census re opening post

Smiths Court, Manchester, Lancashire, England

John   Smith   -   -   Male   30   1841   Hawker   Ireland
Mary   Smith   -   -   Female   28   1843   -   Ireland
Mary Jane   Smith   Daughter   -   Female   1   1870   -   Manchester, Lancashire, England
Michael   Smith   Brother   -   Male   13   1858   Hawker   Manchester, Lancashire, England

Probably NOT our man
SS

England and Wales Select Cemetery registers   Ancestry
NameJohn Smith
Age28 Record Type Burial Birth Date abt 1844
Death Dateabt 1872 Burial Date31 Jan 1872

Philips Park CemeteryCemetery SectionEGrave Number455
Occupation Hawker

It be nice if there was more information.
So agreed , probably not the one we are looking for .
They were on the same census district as the Rev Gornall in 1871. Another dead end. 

[ManchesterJohnson]

Wilcoxon thank you for all your effort though. I’ve been through quite a few dead ends with John Smith! I couldn’t afford any more GRO buys so came here 😃

I started out with that 1871 family being the basis, but they don’t track with the other findings.

[Ladyhawk]

1891 same family in Bradford, Lancs
all dittoed b Ireland
James McAndrew 56   Head
Ann McAndrew 50   Wife
Jane Welsh 70   Mother-in-law
Mary Jane Smith   21   Niece (occ is similar to marriage info)
John W Smith 18   Brother (brother to Mary Jane?)
Maggie Smith 16   Sister

If access - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/6598/records/21062913

Don't know if connected but have been looking at this family. Ann is not the mother of the McAndry sons as 1871 that is Catherine nee McCormack who dies March Q 1879.

1881 - Bradford, Manchester
James Mc Andry   48   Head
Ann Mc Andry 40 Wife
Arthur Mc Andry 20 Son
William Mc Andry 18 Son
Janes Welsh 70,  Mother in Law
Mary J. Smith 11 Niece, Manchester

If access - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7572/records/10852278

Added - Think the connection maybe to wife Ann?

Think this maybe the 1871 for Ann Byrne. Age is out but image could be 31. 
So likely unmarried on marriage to McAndry? I would not assume relationship until more evidence. Connection could be a Burn/Byrne cousin...Jane could have remarried a Welsh etc.

1871 - All Souls, Manchester (New Cross)
Anne Byrne   21   Head, unmarried, Ireland
Jane Welsh 56 Mother, Widow, Ireland
Anne Mee 15  Boarder
Mary Hunt 70 Boarder
Anne Hunt 28  Boarder

If access - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7619/records/17718563

Added - would remember there is over 4 yrs between 1891 census and marriage address in 1895, would check the surname of people/wife at marriage address for possible family connection maybe.

There is this possible death for wife Ann that would fit with last census

Honora McAndry Age   59
Dec 1897 Prestwich, Lancashire Volume   8d Page   218

So likely this marriage connects

Honora Byrne - James McAndry same page.
Dec 1879    Manchester Volume   8d Page   379

Maybe a long shot but Byrne and Burns are similar. Although could have been married previously.  Also Ann can be a pet form of Honora

Been following  - Cas well found - the 1871 census for Ann does appear to be age 21 looking at some of the other entries on that page but then again mother in law Jane Welsh is 70 in 1881 & 1891 

Cas your hunch was correct re: 1897 death entry

Honora McANDRY age 59 years
Died 3 Dec 1897, 11 Willow Street Bradford
Bronchitis
Wife of James, general labourer,
Informant James widower, present at death, same address he made his mark

I took a gamble on this 1894 death entry

Jane WELSH, 71 years, widow of James WELSH, general labourer
Died 11 June 1894, 11 Willow Street Bradford
Old age certified by George Thomas M.R.C.S
Informant Ann McANDREW daughter present at death, same address she made her mark

You would need to obtain the Dec 1879 BRYNE/McANDRY m/c to confirm her father’s name

I’m not seeing a Welsh/Bryne/Burn marriage on FreeBMD, Lancashire BMD or Ireland Geanology https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/search/
Not having much luck finding a baptism for Honora/Ann Byrne/Burn either 

[wilcoxon]

On 2 June 1898 there was a serious train crash at Leyland, an excursion was returning from Blackpool.
One of the injured was Anne Burn 11 Willow Street Bradford.
No other names that I recognise.
Sheffield Daily Telegraph 4 June 1898

[ManchesterJohnson]

After adding the Burns name, Ancestry (I claim no credit) through up a coincidental suggestion

1851 census in Lancaster

Andrew Burns 29 b Roscommon, Ireland
Jane Burns 29 b Roscommon, Ireland
Mary Burns 8 b Wigton, Cumberland
Margaret Burns 6 b Preston, Lancashire

Now this doesn't tie up with the 1871 census as although Mary Smith nee Burns shows at the right age (1843 birth), it shows her being born in Ireland.

Just an interesting one for the mix.

[wilcoxon]

I have the 1871 census which shows John and Mary Smith living at 2 Smiths Court,

I will send for the marriage cert of John Smith and Mary Burns in 1864 and see if that matches.
Thanks everyone.

Hopefully when the certificate arrives it will help. 🙂

[ManchesterJohnson]

I have the 1871 census which shows John and Mary Smith living at 2 Smiths Court,

I will send for the marriage cert of John Smith and Mary Burns in 1864 and see if that matches.
Thanks everyone.

Being despatched on the 20th, so should have it early next week. I'll post it here.

Hopefully when the certificate arrives it will help. 🙂

[Ladyhawk]

I will send for the marriage cert of John Smith and Mary Burns in 1864 and see if that matches

Being despatched on the 20th, so should have it early next week. I'll post it here.

Fingers crossed