Smith's help!

[wilcoxon]

This is the marriage SS found. A Civil Marriage, so unfortunately you have to pay for the certificate 🙁

https://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

SMITHJohn
BURNSMary  1864 Manchester Register Office or Registrar AttendedArchives+, Manchester Central LibraryMCR_RM/58/129

[wilcoxon]

 you say have Mary Jane census after her marriage to James Cain.
I'm not finding one for certain
It would hopefully have where she was born.
None of the baptisms found have an abode which is not helping.

[softly softly]

1901/11/21 record Manchester

SS

[wilcoxon]

1901/11/21 record Manchester

SS

Is husband now JOHN.
I'm really struggling with this one 🙄

[Ladyhawk]

you say have Mary Jane census after her marriage to James Cain.
I'm not finding one for certain
It would hopefully have where she was born.
None of the baptisms found have an abode which is not helping.

1901/11/21 record Manchester

Might help others looking James transcribed as Enos on Anc*y

1901
Piece   3740
Folio   131
Page number   15
Jersey Street
James Cain 33 Head
Mary Jane Cain   30   Wife
Mary Elizt Cain   4   Daughter
Margaret Cain   1   Daughter
Josephin Cain   1   Daughter
Catherine Cain   5 mths   Daughter

CAIN, JOSEPHINE   SMITH
GRO Reference: 1899  S Quarter in MANCHESTER  Volume 08D  Page 220   

CAIN, MARGARET   SMITH
GRO Reference: 1899  S Quarter in MANCHESTER  Volume 08D  Page 220   

Address 84 Jersey Street in 1911 but Mary JANE Cain is listed as Mary ANN,
two more children James & Gertrude

Mary Jane Cain age 52 in 1921 same street different number (as per Mary on 1895 marriage cert. posted by ManchesterJohnson)

[Ladyhawk]

Looked at Jersey Street numbers 72, 84, 131  on 1891 census - not much help 

No 72 Elizabeth CAIN, wid children JAMES, Catherine & Joseph (same address 1899 marriage cert.) same address in 1881
James Born 26 Oct 1867 Bpt. 3 Nov 1867 St. Patrick's Father Mattheu Mother Elizabeth McGuire

No 84 William DUCIE & his sister Margaret

No 131 Richard WHITE & his family (he's at that address in 1881)

This is the only SMITH family I can see living in Jersey Street in 1891 

No 66 William Mars Head son in law James SMITH 37 wife Hannah (nee Mars) 37, dau Ellen 8 (mmn MARS), nephew William Smith 21

Are these all the children of James & Mary Jane?

Maria Elizabetha Cain 24 Jul 1896 Baptism   2 Aug 1896 Manchester
Jacobi, Maria Joannae

Joseph Cain 30 Dec 1897 Baptism 9 Jan 1898 Manchester
Jacobi, Mariae Johannae

Margarita Cain   13 Jul 1899 Baptism   23 Jul 1899 Manchester
Jacobi, Mariae   

Josephina Cain   13 Jul 1899 Baptism   23 Jul 1899 Manchester
Jacobi, Mariae

Catherina Cain   29 Oct 1900 Baptism   10 Nov 1900 Manchester
Jacobi, Mariae Jane

Jacobus Cain 18 Nov 1903   Baptism   6 Dec 1903 Manchester
Jacobi, Mariae Jeannae

Gertruda Cain 30 Jun 1906   Baptism   10 Jul 1906 Manchester
Jacobi, Mariae Joannae   

Could naming patterns of James & Mary's children help narrow the search 

We know James' parents Matthew, Elizabeth and siblings Catherine & Joseph (from census)
and  from their m/c
father's Matthew Cain & John Smith
witnesses were Margaret Smith & Joseph Cain

[ManchesterJohnson]

Ladyhawk, thank you. Yes, those are the right children. The only one I was not aware of was Joseph Cain (1897). Jacobus we knew as James. Other than Maria Elizabeth who died as a child, I knew all of them personally.

The Cain side I have pretty well put together, but struggling with the Smiths.

With Mary Jane, one curious aspect is that she lists here address on her marriage certificate (1895) as 131 Jersey Street. As you point out, in 1891, the White family resided there. As they did until around 1897.

I have the 1871 census which shows John and Mary Smith living at 2 Smiths Court, in the same area  as Jersey Street. This has Mary Jane as 1 year old, being born in Manchester. John and Mary are listed as being born in Ireland in 1841 and 1843 respectively.

I will send for the marriage cert of John Smith and Mary Burns in 1864 and see if that matches.

Thanks everyone.

[softly softly]

Just posting this as a ref:, it may or maynot be the correct 1871 census re opening post

Smiths Court, Manchester, Lancashire, England

John   Smith   -   -   Male   30   1841   Hawker   Ireland
Mary   Smith   -   -   Female   28   1843   -   Ireland
Mary Jane   Smith   Daughter   -   Female   1   1870   -   Manchester, Lancashire, England
Michael   Smith   Brother   -   Male   13   1858   Hawker   Manchester, Lancashire, England

A possible son John William 1872 mmn Burns. as per previous posts

A marriage (image on Ancestry for those with a sub) Ancoats, St James the Less 28/29.2.1892

John Smith 18 occ Hawker, bach, 24 Bk Mill Street--father John Smith occ Hawker

Bridget Glynn 18, factory operative, 26 Bk Mill Street--father Patrick Glynn, occ Dyer


Probably NOT our man
SS

[Ladyhawk]

Just posting this as a ref:, it may or maynot be the correct 1871 census re opening post

Smiths Court, Manchester, Lancashire, England

John   Smith   -   -   Male   30   1841   Hawker   Ireland
Mary   Smith   -   -   Female   28   1843   -   Ireland
Mary Jane   Smith   Daughter   -   Female   1   1870   -   Manchester, Lancashire, England
Michael   Smith   Brother   -   Male   13   1858   Hawker   Manchester, Lancashire, England

A possible son John William 1872 mmn Burns. as per previous posts

SS - have you found the above family on the 1881 census?

Mary Jane born c1870 there is this death entry 

Mary Jane Smith Age   11
Death Mar 1881 Manchester  Volume   8d Page   197

Mary Jane Smith age 26 occupation was cotton piecer on her 1895 marriage cert. perhaps we can find her on the 1891 census with same occupation