Author Topic: Smith's help!  (Read 682 times)

Offline ManchesterJohnson

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Smith's help!
« on: Thursday 13 November 25 18:03 GMT (UK) »
Ok, so of course I've found Smith's in my line and I'm stuck.

I have my great grandmother's marriage certificate, dated June 6th 1895, marrying James Cain. This certificate has her aged 26 and living at 131 Jersey Street, in Ancoats, Manchester.

Her father is listed at John Smith (of course it would be!), who is deceased but was a labourer.

The only matching census record I can find is from 1871, shwoing a 1 year old Mary Jane Smith living with John and Mary Smith, in Ancoats. I don't know if this is the right Mary Jane, but it's the only one that matches. I can't find any matching records for her, even though I've paid for a few birth certificates.

I've attached the marriage cert so you can see other details. The witness for Mary Jane is listed as Margaret Smith, but I don't know if that's a sister, friend or mother.

Does anyone have any ideas of how I can track her down?


Online softly softly

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,615
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 13 November 25 18:31 GMT (UK) »
Possible

Marriages Dec 1864   

Burns    Mary        Manchester    8d   672    
Smith    John        Manchester    8d   672    

---------------------
Smith        dob 13.6.1872--appears in  Ancoats  1921 and 1939 war reg with same dob
John William             
1872

1872
England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
Ancoats, St Alban, Lancashire, England


Smith
Mary Jane      dob  8.6.1869
1869

1869
England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
Ancoats, St Alban, Lancashire, England
Smith

Margarita       dob 2.9.1865
1865

1865
England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
Ancoats, St Alban, Lancashire, England

All 3 above baptisms have mmn Burns.

SS

Offline ManchesterJohnson

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 13 November 25 20:53 GMT (UK) »
And that's why I'm on the beginners forum!

Thank you. The Margarita is an interesting link with the marriage cert.

Where did you find the catholic baptism records? And why aren't these births on the GRO database?



Online softly softly

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,615
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 13 November 25 21:01 GMT (UK) »
I cannot as yet answer all your questions. The actual baptism/confirmation images are available on Ancestry with transcripts on FindMyPast. My experience often with many early Catholic births show that the parents did not register the births with GRO.
There are many far more experienced rootschatters who I expect will add to your post and also give you further help in the search.

If this is your 1st post--welcome

SS


Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,741
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #4 on: Friday 14 November 25 08:55 GMT (UK) »


"I don't know if this is the right Mary Jane, but it's the only one that matches"

  matches...who?.....matches what?

  You have obtained this marriage certificate as part of your research into the origins of .....who?

 what do you know about your Mary Jane Smith?

Offline ManchesterJohnson

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #5 on: Friday 14 November 25 09:50 GMT (UK) »
Apologies if I wasn't clear enough but researching these more difficult lines is still new to me.

Mary Jane Smith is my great grandmother. In 1895, she married my GGF James Cain. From that point forward, I have every census record without issue.

From the marriage certificate, I know that her father is John Smith. I have her death certificate in 1921, with James Cain being the widower.

My aunt, the only living relative of the generation previous to me, was born in 1935, so never met her and recalls very little said about her.

I therefore have nothing tangible before 1895.  The records I do have all point to her being born 1869/70 but I cannot find a birth record that matches this info..

In the 1871 census, there is an entry for a family, John and Mary Smith, with a daughter, of the right age (1) Mary Jane Smith, living in the same area of Manchester as her husband-to-be's family. There is no other evidential link between that census entry and my GGM. Likewise, I cannot find any other census entries in 1881 or 1891 that show my GGM. The reason I thought that the 1871 census Mary Jane might be my Mary Jane is that it shows John and Mary Smith, the parents in the 1871 record, as being Irish. Despite me only finding one Irish ancestor so far, my DNA says I am >40% Irish!

So I came on here to ask for help in trying to trace the birth of Mary Jane Smith, so that I can identify and trace her parents.

Does that make it a bit clearer or am I still asking the wrong questions?

Online softly softly

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,615
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #6 on: Friday 14 November 25 09:56 GMT (UK) »
It explains things really well, I and others will continue to seek

SS

Online wilcoxon

  • -
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 8,781
  • Barry Sheene 1950-2003
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #7 on: Friday 14 November 25 10:00 GMT (UK) »
Baptism: 17 Sep 1865 St Alban, Ancoats, Lancashire
Margarita Smith - [Child] of Joannis Smith & Mariae (formerly Burns)
    Born: 2 Sep 1865
    Godparents: Thomas Smith; Anna Burns
    Baptised By: J. Gornall
    Register: Baptisms 1863 - 1870, Page 40, Entry 205
    Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives

Baptism: 13 Jun 1869 St Alban, Ancoats, Lancashire
Mary Jane Smith - [Child] of John Smith & Mary (formerly Burns)
    Born: 8 Jun 1869
    Godparents: James Smith; Catherine Smith
    Baptised By: J. Gornall
    Register: Baptisms 1863 - 1870, Page 132, Entry 656
    Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives

Found here for free. It's easy to use, and you might find more. 🙂

https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/


Census information is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Online wilcoxon

  • -
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 8,781
  • Barry Sheene 1950-2003
    • View Profile
Re: Smith's help!
« Reply #8 on: Friday 14 November 25 10:10 GMT (UK) »


Oops. I missed this one SS found. Also on Lancashire Parish Clerks

Baptism: 16 Jun 1872 St Alban, Ancoats, Lancashire
John William Smith - [Child] of John Smith & Mary (formerly Burns)
    Born: 13 Jun 1872
    Godparents: John Welsh; Ann Burns
    Baptised By: J. Gornall
    Register: Baptisms 1870 - 1891, Entry 986
    Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives
Census information is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)