Midshipman RN 1915

[GrahamSimons]

I am chasing the details of William Vazie Simons born February 1898. He was made Midshipman on 5th Aug 1915 and served in HMS Alacantara until she was sunk in 1916.
He later claimed to have served in HMS Triumph in the Dardanelles; Triumph arrived there in February 1915 and was sunk in May 1915.
I suspect that this claim is untrue - could he have been at sea in Triumph before he was made Mid? He'd have been just 17 at the time and so age wouldn't have been a bar. I've found other half-truths from him already......

[martin hooper]

There's a few records with that name on FindMyPast. One RN and the rest RAF.

Is that him?

[GrahamSimons]

Yes indeed - but there are a few namesakes around which can be infuriatingly misleading!
I know quite a bit about him (some not v positive)
Born 1898; his father had already died. Orphaned 1909.
Christ's Hospital then 2 years at HMS Worcester then Midshipman. What I don't have are dates at Worcester.
After being sunk while with Alacantara he then joined the Fleet Air Arm and has a reasonably successful war in floatplanes then became RAF when that was formed in 1918. Left the RAF post war and had time in Ceylon, of which I know nothing. Patchy disciplinary record but appears to have been a good pilot; one report said he was "very plausible."
Went to NZ and had a pilot's licence there; spent time promoting aviation; was a salesman of one sort or another.
Joined RNZAF in WW2; disciplinary issues; resigned commission as a Flt Lt. Later he claimed to be a Wing Commander and even an Air Commodore. That among other things is why I distrust the Triumph claim.
Married and divorced three times. Died and buried in NZ, 1967, general labourer.

[hanes teulu]

Looking at his appointment to Midshipman (Temporary- seniority from 31 Jul 1915)) record at National Archives, what's the entry under Board of Trade Certificate read, and what's the significance of the cert?

Added - forgot to add "I see what you mean about infuriating namesakes". 

[GrahamSimons]

I don't know the answer to that. It's possible that the BoT certificate was gained while he was in Worcester as the expectation was that boys trained there would go to sea. I can't read the entry in the download very clearly - the date looks like 16-7-15 which would fit with leaving Worcester to join the RN. From the likely date it can't be Master or Mate certificate and it doesn't look like Engineer.

[hanes teulu]

Thanks - I couldn't decide if it was 16-1-15 or 16-7-15.

[tonepad]

If he had served on HMS Triumph in the Dardanelles at the age of 17, presumably he would have been a Boy Seaman before becoming a Midshipman. However his name does not appear in the records below:

UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1848-1939 


His Temporary Midshipman details are on "Admiralty: Royal Naval Reserve: Officers' Service Records" dating from after the Triumph was torpedoed.

If he was in the Dardanelles, perhaps he was on a merchant ship and in the RN Reserve after leaving Worcester and witnessed the sinking of the Triumph.


My interest in this topic is due to my grandfather serving as an RN Stoker and surviving the sinking of both the Triumph and the Majestic.


Tony

[GrahamSimons]

I've worked out that he'd have been old enough to be a boy serving in Triumph (the rule was age 15 1/4 up to December 1914, 15 3/4 therafter, checked with a birth certificate). I've contacted Christ's Hospital to check his dates there, which would in turn confirm his dates in Worcester, and that would determine whether he could have joined Triumph. So the question is open for the time being - as we can't find him in the Seamen Register it seems increasingly unlikely.

[tonepad]

Boy cadets left HMS Worcester at about the age of 16 1/2 and most joined the merchant service.
Therefore it seems more plausible that W V Simons became a crewmember on RMS Alcantara in 1914 and then a Midshipman in 1915 after Alcantara was requisitioned by the Admiralty in April 1915. HMS Alcantara was commissioned in the 10th Cruiser Squadron and joined the Northern Patrol, patrolling north of the UK, many miles from the Dardanelles.

Is his claim to have served in HMS Triumph in the Dardanelles still available in writing or a family story?


Tony