What happened to Frederick Murray born 1903 Moama NSW, Australia

[bitzar]

Hi Essnell,

Could you please tell us everything on the MC if you are willing to.  Does the info relate to your man?

Also Lake Condah mission is in Far SW Victoria, a 4 hour drive from Melbourne on todays roads.

There are Murray's living in Heywood, a town with a strong connection to the mission.

bitzar.

EDIT:  Dinah / Diana ARDEN's parents were at Lake Condah.  2 of their children were born there in the 1910's.  Other children were registered at Purnim so possibly they were residing at Framlingham mission.  A nephew of Dinah was buried at Lake Condah cemetery in 1991.

[sparrett]

I think you need to go back and look at Replies number #16 and #17 this thread.

Fred Murray,
Had a son named Frank with Mabel Rose (...?)
Frank is you son-in -law's father

Fred Murray
Had a child named Barbara Lyall Murray with Diana Margaret Arden.
She married Wesley Haby and had children.

Fred Murray was the son of William Murray and Lila Atkinson.

Have you not stated your son in law has DNA connections to the names HABY, ARDEN and MURRAY?
I see the only possible link is this particular Federick Murray.

Sue 

[Essnell]

Hi Bitzar and Sparratt,
  first:  I am sorry about not knowing more about where these places are.  I did realise that Lake Conda was in the South Western corner of Victoria but I had no real idea of how far that was from Melbourne. 

I have been trying to work out just where I found the information re Francis Frederick  and Frederick.    My notes tell me that there is a family tree belonging to Secombe family and that is where I saw the link to Arden.  The Secombe  family are one of the DNA matches that I was following some time ago.   

Now recently I have another match for a R. Smith.   I have not completed looking at that.  but it appears to tell the same story.

Most of the family line comes down from William Walter Murray and Lila lily Atkinson but also their son Sidney John Murray born 1900. 

These below are his siblings: 

Francis Frederick Murray  1903
Frederick Murray 1905
Mollie Murray 1907
Elizabeth 'Bertina Bessie" Murray 1908
Laura Murray 1913
Wiliam Murray 1917- 1922  age 5 yrs.

1/2 siblings
Alfrred Murray  1905
Lila Murray 1907 - 1907.

Now Sidney John Murray married Hilda Zenobia Stewart . It's from this couple's children that I have a direct line to DNA matches. 

Re the marriage Cert;  I have a screen shot of it.   Nope not going to work from my computer. 
So here is the basics. 

Rec No122   
 Place: St Mary's Church Lake Conda 8 APR 1926   
Parties:   Francis Frederick Murray    --------Bachelor------ hosngh    Eucha
              Dinah Margaret Arden   --------   Spinster -----  Warnambool

Married by Banns     According to the rites of the Church of England.     They both signed
   Dinah messing up her name and having to re write 'Dinah'   

Witnessed by C M Foster   and E W Rosenwarne  [ it's scrawly so hard to read]

so   from above ----   would this be the scenario.
  Francis Frederick 1903 married Dinah Arden  and Frederick 1905 was little Frank's father with Mabel Rose --  by 1921 he would have been 16+ yrs old.   Mabel was 17  that age is on the Birth rec for Frank.

hope the above makes sense. 

Essnell

[bitzar]

Hi Bitzar and Sparratt,
  first:  I am sorry about not knowing more about where these places are.  I did realise that Lake Conda was in the South Western corner of Victoria but I had no real idea of how far that was from Melbourne. 

I have been trying to work out just where I found the information re Francis Frederick  and Frederick.    My notes tell me that there is a family tree belonging to Secombe family and that is where I saw the link to Arden.  The Secombe  family are one of the DNA matches that I was following some time ago.   

Now recently I have another match for a R. Smith.   I have not completed looking at that.  but it appears to tell the same story.

Most of the family line comes down from William Walter Murray and Lila lily Atkinson but also their son Sidney John Murray born 1900. 

These below are his siblings: 

Francis Frederick Murray  1903
Frederick Murray 1905
Mollie Murray 1907
Elizabeth 'Bertina Bessie" Murray 1908
Laura Murray 1913
Wiliam Murray 1917- 1922  age 5 yrs.

1/2 siblings
Alfrred Murray  1905
Lila Murray 1907 - 1907.

Now Sidney John Murray married Hilda Zenobia Stewart . It's from this couple's children that I have a direct line to DNA matches. 

Re the marriage Cert;  I have a screen shot of it.   Nope not going to work from my computer. 
So here is the basics. 

Rec No122   
 Place: St Mary's Church Lake Conda 8 APR 1926   
Parties:   Francis Frederick Murray    --------Bachelor------ hosngh    Eucha
              Dinah Margaret Arden   --------   Spinster -----  Warnambool

Married by Banns     According to the rites of the Church of England.     They both signed
   Dinah messing up her name and having to re write 'Dinah'   

Witnessed by C M Foster   and E W Rosenwarne  [ it's scrawly so hard to read]

so   from above ----   would this be the scenario.
  Francis Frederick 1903 married Dinah Arden  and Frederick 1905 was little Frank's father with Mabel Rose --  by 1921 he would have been 16+ yrs old.   Mabel was 17  that age is on the Birth rec for Frank.

hope the above makes sense. 

Essnell

Who does Francis Frederick state his parents to be on the MC?

bitzar.

[Essnell]

Hi Bitzar, 
 
The marriage record does not contain that information it only has what I said in the last post.  Nothing for either of the people who got married other than their names and marital status, and where born. 
What I posted is all that is on the certificate  - it's pretty basic. 

This was at the Mission Church at Lake Conda.       It appears to have been a church that was part of a more established one elsewhere.  It was established in1867.
According to wikipedia  the church was attached to Ballarat.  Several people administered the Mission over the years. At times people were removed but then returned .  Chequered history.  Now owned by an indigenous group. 

Essnell.

[sparrett]

Hi Essnell,

 
Also Lake Condah mission is in Far SW Victoria, a 4 hour drive from Melbourne on todays roads.

There are Murray's living in Heywood, a town with a strong connection to the mission.

bitzar.

EDIT:  Dinah / Diana ARDEN's parents were at Lake Condah.  2 of their children were born there in the 1910's.  Other children were registered at Purnim so possibly they were residing at Framlingham mission.  A nephew of Dinah was buried at Lake Condah cemetery in 1991.

Mounted Constable ROSEWARNE commenced duties at Heywood, May 1925.
Witness to the marriage.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/75072181?searchTerm=%22constable%20%20Rosewarne%20%22

[sparrett]

Most of the family line comes down from William Walter Murray and Lila lily Atkinson but also their son Sidney John Murray born 1900. 

These below are his siblings: 

Francis Frederick Murray  1903
Frederick Murray 1905
Mollie Murray 1907
Elizabeth 'Bertina Bessie" Murray 1908
Laura Murray 1913
Wiliam Murray 1917- 1922  age 5 yrs.

1/2 siblings
Alfrred Murray  1905
Lila Murray 1907 - 1907.

 

Essnell

Your list of children to William Lila MURRAY has little in common with the registered births to the couple

Harriet I. 1898
Sydney John 1890
Frederick 1903
Presalla L. 1905
Lila 1907
Elizabeth 1908.

You can see the details using the online BMD registers

Sue

[Essnell]

Hi  Sparrat,  Thanks for your latest post. 

just to maybe help; 

I have previously been through the NSW  BMD site looking for children of Walter William "Goonah" Murray and Lila
Lily Atkinson.  This is what I found first .

6 children: 
Harriet I MURRAY       Reg No     32315/1898     William     Lila    Moama    Unavailable
Sidney J MURRAY      Reg No     23893/1900     William     Lila    Moama    Readily Available
Frederick MURRAY     Reg No    13762/1903      William     Lila    Moama    Unavailable
Presalla L MURRAY    Reg No    25162/ 1905     William     Lila    Moama    Unavailable
Lila MURRAY              Reg No    37304/ 1907     William     Lila    Moama    Unavailable
Elizabeth  MURRAY    Reg No    37621/1908      William     Lila    Moama    Unavailable
plus; 
Ridley MURRAY         Reg No    31714/1912      William     Lila    Moulamein  Unavailable
Laura MURRAY         Reg No     27041/1915     William    Lila    Moulamein   Readily Available
William MURRRAY    Reg No    33353/1917      william     Lila     Balranald    Unavailable

Presalla 's name is also shown as " Mollie Priscilla Lavinia Murray" in places.   and in others "Bessie Murray"  I  think Mollie and Bessie were Nicknames.
Elizabeth was also "Bessie".

Frederick 1905 is totally debatable and I think not  our fellow. 

That said , I have not got Francis in the William /Lila Murray family either.  It's from that couple's son, Sidney John that there is a connection.    I  am retracing this as I work here .    so ...
more when I find what's what . 
Essnell

[Essnell]

A bit more

William Walter had more than 1 wife. 

Catherine Rogers appears  to have had two or three children with similar names to Lila's children

Alice Colger also had a number of children to William Walter Murray:     11 possibly.  I just have a list, but no Fredrick.
dates range from 1889- 1937plus 3 after that.  these need checking asap.
Like I have seen else where the men folk appear to have had several wives all at the same time, judging by the birth dates of their children.   
Essnell.