Anchor Mills Clark family.

[osip]

Hi David, I'm up to speed now!

I have mentioned in an earlier post that geographically I have no knowledge of Scotland at all. Crathie and Braemar has always been stated as being in Aberdeenshire when I have searched. When your post mentions Deeside, which I havn't come across in my research, I didn't make the connection. I now know in fact that there is a connection.

The more I think of Robert being in Australia the more I think it unlikely. Even though the general online search suggests it may be true. Without paper and document evidence it is impossible to be sure.

Your research has turned up some fascinating history. Having photos can be so vital to research but also infuriating if the people and places can't be identified. That Smiddy is incredible. I would have to visit and stand in front of it.

[David Nicoll]

I wouldn’t cross him off, plenty of examples of families going to both Australia and Canada or the US, and moving between them. People moved a lot more than we think.
The Robert dying in Australia might not be correct, but Deeside families, mine amongst them, had links all over the world at the time.
If the other names are correct, I would pursue the line of research.
Forfarian has come up with a pretty convincing story.

[David Nicoll]

I may have also inadvertently linked to the wrong post by Geoff Turner, the same family though.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=894666.0

[Forfarian]

I have mentioned in an earlier post that geographically I have no knowledge of Scotland at all. Crathie and Braemar has always been stated as being in Aberdeenshire when I have searched. When your post mentions Deeside, which I havn't come across in my research, I didn't make the connection. I now know in fact that there is a connection.

Yes.

Braemar is a small town in the parish of Crathie, and the River Dee flows past Braemar and Crathie and continues past Ballater, Aboyne and Peterculter (among others) before entering the North Sea at Aberdeen. Deeside is a name applied to the part of Aberdeenshire lying on both sides of the River Dee.

The more I think of Robert being in Australia the more I think it unlikely. Even though the general online search suggests it may be true. Without paper and document evidence it is impossible to be sure.

The official Victoria deaths index lists a death of Robert Clark, aged 92, parents James Clark and Janet Morris, in Echuca in 1902. So it looks as if this is indeed your Robert Clark.

As for his DoB, his baptism was in 1810, so the age on his death certificate is spot on. I wouldn't worry too much about his age in the census being out by a year or two. This is quite common, and Morice/Morris sound the same.

There's also an index listing of the death of Ann Clark, aged 72, parents Andrew Philip and Margaret or Mary Malcolm, in Echuca in 1892. There's no matching baptism in the surviving records, but Andrew Philp and Margaret malcolm did have two other children
Mary, baptised 5 November 1820 in Dundee
James, baptised 2 June 1822 in Mains and Strathmartine - which is the parish where Ann Philp or Clark was born, according to the census.

I see that a Margaret Philip or Malcolm, aged 82, mother's maiden surname Robb, died in Monifieth in 1876 aged 82. Monifieth is the next parish east from Dundee, and Mains and Strathamartine is the next parish north-west of Dundee. It is where Robert Clark and Ann Philip married in 1840. It might be worth a look at that certificate.

So it does look as if Robert and Ann emigrated to Australia. The original 1871 census does say quite clearly 'widow' but perhaps the enumerator got it wrong, or perhaps Ann herself was being economical with the truth.

You could get copies of the death certificates to provide the documentary evidence.

[osip]

Such a lot of information in such a short time! Many thanks Forfarian.

Many people do not consider their ancestry as being of any relevence. For me the sense of 'time and place' is very important.

This line of enquery was instigated by my late mothers claim to be related to 'people who owned mills'. As of yet this cannot be proven. But the case of me being related to Captain Cook through her granma Annie Cook was proven to be wrong through rootschat. He never had children nor did his siblings!

Roberts timeline is interesting;

1810   Robert born
1820   Ann born
1840   Married
1844   son James born (Scotland) 1875 James son William born Liverpool.
1851   son William born (Scotland)
1892   Ann died (Australia)
1902   Robert died (Australia)

Which then gives us the possible gap inbetween which Robert and Ann could have travelled to Australia. Both quite advanced in years! And one source suggesting they has 11 children!

Such a lot to look into. Thanks once again.

[Forfarian]

And one source suggesting they has 11 children!

If you look at the two censuses, 1851 and 1861, from which I've already posted extracts, there are at least 7: James, Margaret, Robert, William, Betsey, Peter and Isabella. There's also Martha, born in 1862.

Or look at the six baptism records for children born before 1855, and three births after 1855, making 9 so far. See screenshots. The extra one is Andrew, baptised 1842. Presumably he died before the 1851 census.
 

the possible gap in between which Robert and Ann could have travelled to Australia.

Ann and the children were still in West Ham in 1871, so that narrows the gap still further. Maybe Robert travelled first and sent for his family once he had got settled there. You may be able to find an incoming passenger list with Ann and the children.

There's also Ann Alexander, aged 14 in the 1851 census. She could be the daughter of David Alexander and Ann Philip, who was baptised in Monifieth on 30 June 1836. That would suggest that Ann Phil*p was very young when Ann Alexander was born.

[osip]

Thanks Forfarian.

I checked for passenger lists but arrival records from British ports only survive from 1890. And no sign of our couple.

I checked the convict lists (started in 1787) the final list 1868. No sign.

But this is interesting. Or baffling depending on how you look at it.

Robert and Ann are buried in the same grave. Echuca Cemetary, Echuca, Campaspe Shire, Victoria, Australia. F Section 15 Grave 8.

Roberts details are good BUT, the Ann Clark details?

Ann Wright Clark (Just Ann Clark on Death Schedule)
b1820 - d1892 (same as our Ann)
Hulme, Lancashire, England.

Spouse Samual Clark 1811-1867

Father Andrew Phillip  Farmer
Mother Margaret Phillip (Malcom)
both in Hulme England.

These are the only Robert and Ann in the cemetary. And in Victoria.

Any thoughts Forfarian?

[Forfarian]

But this is interesting. Or baffling depending on how you look at it.
Robert and Ann are buried in the same grave. Echuca Cemetary, Echuca, Campaspe Shire, Victoria, Australia. F Section 15 Grave 8.
Roberts details are good BUT, the Ann Clark details?
Ann Wright Clark (Just Ann Clark on Death Schedule)
b1820 - d1892 (same as our Ann)
Hulme, Lancashire, England.
Spouse Samual Clark 1811-1867
Father Andrew Phillip  Farmer
Mother Margaret Phillip (Malcom)
both in Hulme England.
These are the only Robert and Ann in the cemetary. And in Victoria.
Any thoughts Forfarian?

That certainly makes no sense at all. Is it from the burial records or from some other source?

[osip]

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/167343162/ann-clark

Death Schedule looks sound - death Tuberculosis

But the Hulme location is ? (okay. The correct Scottish details are on the Death Schedule)

And Spouse Samual ? (obviously wrong info)

Just spotted Roberts details next to hers! Robert must have arrived 1871.