Find a Grave soldier's memorial

[CassieP]

Hi, please can anyone help me regarding the Find a Grave memorial for Arthur Charles Webb 1917 - 2007.  I'm afraid it's a long story!

Arthur's Find a Grave memorial was passed to me for completion as I work on military memorials and it already had this information:

"Dunkirk veteran Burma Star, Royal Horse Artillery, 9th Argyle & Southern Highlanders, 82 WA Division, 142 Battery"

I always check as far as I possibly can that any details on a memorial are correct.  Unfortunately the person who added this information to the memorial is not contactable - I guess no longer an active contributor to Find a Grave, so I am trying to find other ways of proving it is correct.

Here is my research so far ...

I checked with the cemetery that the name and dates for Arthur correspond with those on the Find a Grave memorial.  Unfortunately they have no other details other than the ashes were collected by his family.

I made contact with a member of the Webb family who has Arthur on his family tree but he is unable to help.

I wrote to one of Arthur's two granddaughters 3 months ago but she has not responded.  I have no contact details for the other granddaughter.

I sent for Arthur's marriage and death certificates and his marriage certificate does confirm that in 1941 he was a soldier.  (I have tried unsuccessfully to attach the death and marriage certificates here!)

I searched in the British Newspaper archives - I was hoping to find an obituary, but am unable to find any mention of him.

No military records are coming up for him on Ancestry.

I searched on Find My Past in Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942.  There is an Arthur Charles Webb listed with the service number 875756.   The only details are "21.10.42 para 390 XV11 KR" which I think is Kings Regulations, discharged physically unfit.  This could be "my" Arthur, but I'm unable to verify that.

If anyone has any ideas at all on how to proceed with this I'd be most grateful.  If I am unable to prove Arthur's military details I will keep them on his memorial but noting that they are not verified.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/19495971/arthur-webb

Many thanks
Carole 

[Andy J2022]

There's a Burma Star Association membership record for an Arthur Charles Webb but the details don't quite tie up with the ones on FindAGrave.
However if you think it might be the same person, you can see that he was an officer and has recorded his Army number* so you may be able to find entries for him in the London Gazette.


*the application form says 'Service' number but I expect scrimnet will be along soon to tell them that there's no such thing.

[Andy J2022]

The man who joined the Burma Star Association was commissioned on 14 Oct 1942. Extract from London Gazette Supplement 35794 page 5093 published 24 Nov 1942 is shown below.

[Andy J2022]

I think the reference to 82nd (West African) Division in both the FindAGrave details and the membership application to join the Burma Star Association are fairly conclusive that the latter is the man you are researching, despite the anomaly with the title of his battery. Therefore this article on 82 (WA) Div may be helpful in filling in the picture. 42 Mortar Regiment was not formed until 1 August 1944, in West Africa, before the whole Division moved to Burma, arriving there in Dec 1944. My guess is that Lt Arthur Charles Webb remained in the Far East until VJ day and probably returned to the UK in mid 1946.

Since he would have been aged 25 when he was commissioned, I suspect that the reference to the 9th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders meant that he first joined that unit as a soldier (possibly once he reached 18 in 1935) but almost certainly before November 1938 because that was when the 9th Battallion A&SH was transferred to the Royal Artillery and became 58th* Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery. 58th LAA Regt went to France with the BEF in 1940. While he was serving in the 58th (LAA) Regt he was probably recommended for a commission and went off for officer training in early 1942. Between his commissioning and joining 42 Mortar Regt in West Africa in 1944 he may well have served with the Royal Horse Artillery.

I can suggest two ways of going forward. Firstly you can apply to the MOD for his service record - details of how to do that here. Ignore any comments about applying to the National Archives - that's for soldiers' records. Officers' records are not currently due to be moved to TNA. This is by far the better option if you are after personal details. The down side is that it costs £30.

Secondly if you can get to the National Archives, you could search the war diaries of 42 Mortar Regt for the period Jan - Sep 1945 (plus 1946 if required) to get some detail about what the unit did in Burma. As an officer, it is quite likely that he will get a mention or two by name.

I wouldn't bother with Army Lists or trawling through the London Gazette unless you really have nothing better to do, as all that you will learn is when he was promoted to full lieutenant (my guess would be 18 months after commissioning) and when he left the Army - again I would guess this would have been 1946 when he was de-mobbed. If you get his service record all these details will be there anyway.


*There is a discrepancy in some of the records I have found about whether the unit was initially  numbered 54 or 58. A couple of sources (eg here) say the new regiment was 54th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment.  However I can't find anything in the Royal Artillery records for a Regiment of that name, only 58th (there is a London based 54th Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment but it's definitely not the same one). Possibly a call to the Argylls' Museum could resolve the issue.

[CassieP]

Hello Andy

Thank you so much for your very kind help and for taking the time to research my enquiry.  This is amazing information which I will take my time looking through.

Many thanks again and best wishes
Carole

[CassieP]

Hi Andy

Just found that Arthur's wife Ethel Myrtle Webb nee Glenister passed away in 2001 in Canterbury, Kent - and Arthur's address on the Burma Star Association application is Bridge, Canterbury, Kent!

Carole

[Andy J2022]

I've just put 2 and 2 together. In your original post you said you had found a Royal Artillery enlistment for a man with the number "875756.   The only details are "21.10.42 para 390 XV11 KR" "

I should have checked before but King's Regs para 390 xvii does not mean a soldier has been discharged as unfit; it means discharged from soldier service on commissioning. The register confirms my guess that he joined up in 1937. Also in the attestations register there is the annotation 11 RHA. This suggests that he was in 11th Regiment RHA immediately before his officer training, and not after as I suggested earlier. 11 RHA was one of several new units formed from the Honourable Artillery Company in London. 11 RHA deployed to North Africa in Dec 1941, but I suspect Arthur would have come back to the UK around Easter 1942 to start his officer training.

Some more on 11 RHA here and here. The regiment was equipped with the M7 Priest 105mm self propelled howitzer.

[CassieP]

Hello Andy

Many thanks for your last message and for all the work you have put into my enquiry, I am very grateful.   I think I have enough for the purposes of Arthur's Find a Grave memorial - but it is tempting to apply for his service record!

Kind regards
Carole

[Andy J2022]

Hi Carole, It's been fun researching him. It is just a shame that the grandchildren don't seem to be interested. I can't help thinking that that is one of the downsides of cremation - a memorial doesn't have quite the same evocation of the person as does a grave and grave marker. His ashes were presumably scattered elsewhere.