Samuel Norman of Woburn

[jonwarrn]

Throw in a couple of burials at Woburn..
Henry Norman, 17 August 1813, looks like an infant
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP7Q-FV35

Unnamed Norman, 30 January 1816
Age 2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPH5-PJ9W

[softly softly]

Having looked at findagrave re burials I must confess to not being convinced that the sons are all buried there. I think that a third party has entered those, am always ready to be corrected. Why does your Samuel always put pin as Woburn

SS

[Norfolk Nan]

Thanks for your thoughts both -

jonwrrn - George is the first I've found, born 1833 but the couple married in 1828 so the is probably more.  And thanks for the extras - I've been focused on Samuel's birth, wondering if he was Thomas's sibling and haven't thought about later events.

Softly Softly - I wish I knew but have to assume it's correct until we can show it's not.  And for what it's worth, I know so many people in my tree (and my own son) are a bit vague about place of birth.

Thanks for your efforts both 

[hanes teulu]

Samuel Normans marrying a Mary within a narrow timeframe in the same locale certainly muddies the waters. After posting replies #1 and #3 and checking out the 1920 (sic) burial at reply #2 I drew up the following time line -

FindMyPast baptisms and marriages (transcripts only available)
The parents in each baptism are a Samuel and Mary Norman. Father's occ. included where transcribed

Mar - Samuel Norman, bach and Mary Larman spin, 6 Dec 1819, Langford, St Andrew
Mar - Samuel Norman, 10 Jun 1822, Husborne Crawley and Mary Arnold, St Mary Magdalene/St James
Bap - George, 28 Jul 1822, Husborne Crawley, labourer, St Mary Magdalene/St James
Bap - Mary, 2 Nov 1823, residence Langford, labourer, Langford St Andrew
Bap -  Thomas, 1 Jun 1823, residence Langford, labourer, Langford St Andrew
Bap - Edward, 31 Jul 1825, Husborne Crawley, labourer, St Mary Magdalene/St James
Mar - Samuel Norman, 27 Oct 1828 and Mary Dawborn, Woburn St Mary
Bap - Elizabeth, 6 Jun 1830, residence Woburn, labourer
Bap - Sarah Ann, 5 Nov 1831, residence Langford, labourer Langford St Andrew
Bap - Hannah, 15 Apr 1832, residence Langford, labourer, Langford St Andrew
Bap - George, 16 Jun 1833, Woburn, labourer, Woburn St Mary
Bap - Henery (sic), 17 Nov 1833, residence Langford, labourer, Langford St Andrew
Bap - William, 24 May 1835, Woburn, labourer, Woburn St Mary
Bap - Ann, 7 may 1837, Woburn, labourer, Woburn St Mary
Bap - George, 13 May 1838, residence Langford, labourer, Langford St Andrew
Bap - James, 25 Jan 1839, residence Union Workhouse Biggleswade, lab'r, Biggleswade St Andrew
Bap - Phoebe Fanny, 29 Sep 1839, labourer, Woburn St Mary
Bap - Hannah, 14 Mar 1841, residence Langford, labourer, Langford St Andrew
Bap - Joseph Thomas, 20 Nov 1842, Woburn, labourer, Woburn St Mary

Church names are useful when grouping.

The Husborne Crawley baptisms of Normans cease after 1825 probably (no guarantee) as a result of the death of Samuel, 1 Jun 1826, age 24, hubby of Mary Arnold. They appear to have named their 2nd child Edward which is a link (again no guarantee) to the baptism of Samuel, at Ridgmont, 6 Dec 1801, parents Edward/Elizabeth

The paucity of detail on these early baptisms generates speculation.


 
 

[Norfolk Nan]

Thank you for that detailed timeline, I'll need to give it some serious consideration!  Thank you

[tazzie]

Hi.

 Samuel could have married twice to a Mary as ....Husborne Crawley 19 june 1826 there is a burial of Mary Norman age 25. That could be Mary Arnold as a first wife. However that also lines with the Samuel death there the same year.
 I have families in this area and they move between villages for work. I am not sure if others are lurking and records aren't on line.

   Tazzie

[softly softly]

Taken from post 30#

Bap - Edward, 31 Jul 1825, Husborne Crawley, labourer, St Mary Magdalene/St James

Appears with "Arnold" grandparents Thomas & Elizabeth in 1841, and grandmother only in 1851. Were both parents deceased by 1841?

Bap - George, 28 Jul 1822, Husborne Crawley, labourer, St Mary Magdalene/St James, appears with grandparents Edward & Elizabeth Norman in 1841 census.

SS

added, the Samuel & Mary buried Husborn Crawley were buried 18 days apart in June 1826.

[Norfolk Nan]

Hi and thank you everyone for the very useful information provided and for the thoughts on this mystery.  I just wanted to say I've been chewing it all over this weekend, doing more research and getting absolutely nowhere.

Until I can see the actual marriage cert for Samuel and Mary in 1828 to see if he was a widower, I am thinking he and the Ridgmont/Husborne Crawley/Houghton Conquest Samuel are two different people. 

Thank you for pointing out more Normans - Ann, apparently born c1808 in Woburn and George, the firework throwing labourer who, according to court papers was 23 in 1817, so born c1794.  There no baptisms for either person in Woburn.  There is absolutely no Norman church activity after the late 1780s until the 1830s when Samuel begins baptising his family.  I've looked at the non-conformist registers without luck. 

I think I have found George in the 1851 census, living in St Pancras when lots of my family in this area headed.  He was only working in Woburn when he was in court in 1817 but if I have the right man, he claims to have been born in Bow Brickhill which in Bucks but very nearby.  He has a son called Samuel  but while there are a lot of Normans in the village, there was no baptism for a George. 

So, I'm going around in circles looking for the parents and baptisms for Samuel, Joseph, George and Ann, who, I suspect, are related somehow.  I wish I knew how. 

Thank you for all your help and ideas. 

[jonwarrn]

Hi NN
Well done, great research.

There is a George Norman, labourer, in Bow Brickhill in the Buckinghamshire posse comitatus 1798
Also an Edward Norman.

Apparently it's now on ancestry
Buckinghamshire, England, Napoleonic Register: Posse Comitatus, 1798
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62689/

Or as a large pdf here
https://www.bucksrecsoc.org.uk/BRS-VOLUMES/brs-vol-22.pdf