Banns, did they require signatures?

[Romilly]

I think I’ve probably reached the end of the road with this☹️

I’ve tried the Archives, the main Manchester Registry Office and the Manchester Central Library; all they seem to have is the Certificate completed by the Registrar at the time, Joseph Gormley. (Attached).

Nobody seems to know what became of the original certificate with the Bride and Groom’s signatures.
Romilly

[AntonyMMM]

There is no original certificate.....you need to be asking about registers.

What you have is a certificate produced from the copy that the registrar  sent to GRO.

[Romilly]

I take your point, Antony.

And so the microfiche slides that the Library so kindly looked through for me, would just be photographed from the Register?

From what I could gather, they didn’t seem to have the actual Registers, just the microfiche copies. It’s very frustrating, because I think that I would probably have to search in person to get any further, and I’m a long way from Manchester 🫤

[AntonyMMM]

I've no idea what they have on their microfiche, but if it doesn't have original signatures they aren't images from the original register.

But, you have no right of access to a civil register...... only to have a certificate produced from the information it contains, although as pointed out you can ask for a certificate to made by photocopying the original, they don't have to do it.

[coombs]

I take your point, Antony.

And so the microfiche slides that the Library so kindly looked through for me, would just be photographed from the Register?

From what I could gather, they didn’t seem to have the actual Registers, just the microfiche copies. It’s very frustrating, because I think that I would probably have to search in person to get any further, and I’m a long way from Manchester 🫤

Is it the actual original signatures that you are/were hoping to take a look at? Did you want to compare them against any other signatures of people of the same names or what?

[Jebber]

Romilly

Before much was available to view online, I bought a number of PRs of the places my family lived in Essex on Microfiche, they  are images of the actual Parish Records  so I was able to see the signatures of the couple and the witnesses.

A lot of Pr's were filmed by the LDS, they went to many churches and filmed them, that is why you can see films of a lot of original  PRs on Ancestry.

Years ago I spent hours online trawling through films of the original Medway Kent  PRs on the Medway Archives website as they had filmed their own so are not on Ancestry. Now I can search in minutes on Findmypast, and download the whole Register. If only they were all available like that we would be in clover.

[Romilly]

Hi Coombs,

I’ve long suspected that Richard Kean, born Manchester 1860, and my late Grandfather, William James Wilson, born Manchester 1860, were one and the same person.

DNA testing links me to the descendants of Richard Kean and Frances Butler, the parents of Richard Kean, whereas I have no Wilson DNA matches at all.

I have many copies of William James Wilson’s signature, from Census records and his Marriage Certificate, but I have none of Richard Kean’s. That’s why I’d like to compare them.

Romilly.

[Romilly]

Romilly
Before much was available to view online, I bought a number of PRs of the places my family lived in Essex on Microfiche, they  are images of the actual Parish Records  so I was able to see the signatures of the couple and the witnesses.
A lot of Pr's were filmed by the LDS, they went to many churches and filmed them, that is why you can see films of a lot of original  PRs on Ancestry.
Years ago I spent hours online trawling through films of the original Medway Kent  PRs on the Medway Archives website as they had filmed their own so are not on Ancestry. Now I can search in minutes on Findmypast, and download the whole Register. If only they were all available like that we would be in clover.

Jebber, I remember that a lot of things that were free to view on Family Search (LDS) are now pay to view on FindMyPast. Sadly, the original Registers from St Wilfred’s RC Church, Hulme, don’t seem to be available to view on any Site 😢

[coombs]

A tree on Ancestry has uploaded an image of a military record for Richard Kean enlisting in the 3rd Battalion Manchester Regiment in November 1881, and said he was born in Hulme, Manchester, an is a house painter. And it does seem to show his signature at the bottom, this is likely his original as it is from his army records, as opposed to a copy of his signature. See attachment:-