Which RFA brigade did Walter Sayers serve with?

[Davedrave]

I thought a while ago that I had a reasonably good idea of where Walter Sayers of Derby served in the RFA, having had help some years ago on the Great War Forum (which I no longer seem able to access). However, coming to write it up, I’m now rather confused.

What I know:

Joined up in Derby 1st April 1916 - 3/4 N. Midland (H) Brigade. Number 1885

As I understand it, this unit became part of 298 Army Brigade RFA in early 1917.

Awarded Belgian Croix de Guerre in 1919. (The Gazette, 4|9|19 p.11223). Service number 826633. Bombardier (Acting Corporal) D/64th Brigade RFA.

An entry on his (rather sketchy) burnt record appears to mention 298th Brigade. So, did he move at some stage to 64th Brigade from 298th Brigade? He seems to have been sick in England at some point. Might he have changed units on return to the front? (Even more confusingly, the Long, Long Trail website suggests that his number 826633 would have related to 240th Brigade.)

Also, I don’t seem able to locate the war diary for 64th Brigade.

Dave 

[AllanUK]

The war diaries for the 64th Brigade for the period 1/6/1915 to 31/12/1916 can be downloaded free of charge from the National Archives after creating a free account (NO card details requested)

(image courtesy of the National Archives)

[jim1]

826633 this number was part of a batch allocated to the 240th. & 305th. Bde's.
RFA.
This took place early-mid 1917 so with one of those at that time.

[Davedrave]

Thanks for your answers. It all seems very confusing. I’ve tried to reduce the size of a page of his record so that I can post it here, but unfortunately can’t seem to get it to shrink enough!

I have downloaded the war diaries of 298 Army Brigade RFA and 64 Brigade, and both units were active in Belgium, which may be relevant to his Belgian Croix de Guerre? Unfortunately, the 64 Brigade war diaries I can see on the NA website don’t seem to go beyond July 1918. Since Walter wasn’t demobilised until later in 1919, I wonder if it is possible that he could have been moved from 298 Brigade to 64 Brigade after hostilities had ended? Certainly the 298 Brigade diary suggests that that unit was being wound up in February 1919. But I wonder where 240 Brigade fits in? His record only seems to mention 3/4 N. Midland (which was absorbed into 298) and D/64 (his final unit? this is the unit given in the 1919 Gazette record).

Dave

[Andy J2022]

There is also the issue of his alternative number shown on his MIC. In addition to 826633 there is 281428. This number was issued to the 7th Bn A&SH, so that doesn't make sense. If someone has access to the medal rolls on Ancestry, they may provide some explanation.

[Andy J2022]

I was hoping to find him in the absentee voters electoral register for 1919 which would have shown his unit, but only found him back at home in 1920.

Also, did you note that when he was demobbed at Arques on 18 Sep 1919 his unit was shown as 5th AACC. I don't recognise this abbreviation. AAC (in this context) can stand for Auxiliary Ammunition Column but the stamp on his discharge sheet says No5 Area Animal Camp, so possibly the AACC was something to do with that (?Area Animal Collection or Concentration Centre?).

[Davedrave]

I was hoping to find him in the absentee voters electoral register for 1919 which would have shown his unit, but only found him back at home in 1920.

Also, did you note that when he was demobbed at Arques on 18 Sep 1919 his unit was shown as 5th AACC. I don't recognise this abbreviation. AAC (in this context) can stand for Auxiliary Ammunition Column but the stamp on his discharge sheet says No5 Area Animal Camp, so possibly the AACC was something to do with that (?Area Animal Collection or Concentration Centre?).

Thanks for this, and for drawing my attention to his alternative service number on the MIC. I see that the unit given on that line appears to be “ditto”, referring to the “RFA” on the line above.

Re the camp at Arques, I think it was No. 5 Area Animal Concentration Camp, and would have dealt with horses and mules no longer required by the army, the unfortunate creatures brought together for “disposal”. (I found a reference online to a horse concentration camp in England in 1917). I suppose that having served with horse-drawn artillery, Walter was the sort of soldier who would probably have been pretty used to handling horses.

[Andy J2022]

I suppose that having served with horse-drawn artillery, Walter was the sort of soldier who would probably have been pretty used to handling horses.

Given his occupation in later life, he was also probably quite used to dealing with dead animal skins!

[Davedrave]

I suppose that having served with horse-drawn artillery, Walter was the sort of soldier who would probably have been pretty used to handling horses.

Given his occupation in later life, he was also probably quite used to dealing with dead animal skins!

Yes, although I’m not sure whether he’d taken up his forefathers’ occupation before he joined up, since he was a grocer’s errand boy in 1911. Also, I think the animals in the camp were passed on to dealers, and the unfortunate ones didn’t meet their fates there.

I now realise that an excerpt from a document posted on the Great War forum is possibly from a medal roll. He is mistakenly listed as Sayer, and unfortunately there seems to be little information. I have located that post now. This is a link:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/287690-help-with-understanding-service-record-please/

Dave