Author Topic: What is this heraldic charge?  (Read 630 times)

Offline Zaphod99

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What is this heraldic charge?
« on: Tuesday 23 September 25 12:48 BST (UK) »
Shield and accompanying memorial text attached.

I can't find it in my (ancient) Debrett's.  I don't know if the circular object in the centre is part of the shield or just a fixing.

Zaph

Online GrahamSimons

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Re: What is this heraldic charge?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 23 September 25 13:00 BST (UK) »
Found with respect to a different person of the same name
Gules three lions’ gambs erased argent
Simons Barrett Jaffray Waugh Langdale Heugh Meade Garnsey Evans Vazie Mountcure Glascodine Parish Peard Smart Dobbie Sinclair....
in Stirlingshire, Roxburghshire; Bucks; Devon; Somerset; Northumberland; Carmarthenshire; Glamorgan

Offline KGarrad

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Re: What is this heraldic charge?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 23 September 25 13:08 BST (UK) »
I think Gamb(e)s means legs?

The arms of the Isle of Man are emblazoned in French.

Three legs conjoined in the fesse points in armour proper, garnished and spurred or--Insignia of the ISLE OF MAN.
    [The motto belonging to these insignia is QUOCUNQUE JECERIS STABIT.]
    LE ROY DE MAN de goules a treys gambes armes o tutte le quisses et chekun cornere seyt un pee


Quoting from Parker's:
Gambe, or Jambe: the leg of a beast. If couped or erased at the middle joint it is not a jambe but a paw.

A GLOSSARY OF TERMS USED IN HERALDRY
by JAMES PARKER
FIRST PUBLISHED in 1894

https://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/index.htm
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Online hanes teulu

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Offline Zaphod99

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Re: What is this heraldic charge?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 23 September 25 14:04 BST (UK) »
Thank you all. I would never have guessed that's what it was. I can see it now as a paw with claws. Initially I thought it was a prawn.  I think gambe is probably from the same root as the French word jambe meaning leg.  (Not to be confused with gambas meaning prawns.).  I have the Complete Guide To Heraldry, on my bookshelf, and the good thing about a book is you can flick through it looking for something, not that I managed to find it of course.  The good thing about a PDF is that it doesn't break your foot if you drop it.

I think the herald or the painter had probably never seen one before.

So is the object in the middle, a fixture or a feature?

Zaph

Offline KGarrad

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Re: What is this heraldic charge?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 23 September 25 15:59 BST (UK) »
The blazon says:
Newdegate (Newdegate, co. Surrey; Thomas Newdegate,
Esq., of Newdigate, Gu. three lions' gambs erased ar. Crest—
A fleur-de-lis ar. Another Crest—A lion's gamb erased ar.
Anothtr Crest—A swan ar. beaked and membered gu. gorged
with a ducal coronet or, thereto a chain affixed, and reflexed
over the back vert. Anothtr Crest—A horse courant az.
flames of fire issuing from his nostrils ppr. Motto—Confide
recte agens.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline David Nicoll

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Re: What is this heraldic charge?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 23 September 25 17:42 BST (UK) »
A cadency mark or similar?
Badly drawn Crescent or Annulet?
A difference of some form anyway.
Nicoll, Small - Scotland Dennis - Lincolnshire, Baldwin - Notts. Gordon, Fletcher Deeside

Offline SiGr

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Re: What is this heraldic charge?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 23 September 25 19:27 BST (UK) »
My Latin is not up to much but I think the "filii secundo" means second son. This would support David Nicholl's suggestion that it is a cadency mark because the mark for difference of a second son is a crescent.
(1) Janions of Cheshire, Lancashire, Hawaii, Vancouver and Seattle.
(2) Gregorys of Tarporley, Cheshire.
(3) Pughs of 'The New Pale' near Frodsham and Delamere in Cheshire.
(4) Nevills of Llanelly, Llangennech and Felinfoel.
(5) Yaldens of Ovington/Lovington in Hampshire.

Offline Viktoria

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Re: What is this heraldic charge?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 23 September 25 20:01 BST (UK) »
It might be a Crescent, but that would be with the opening at the top,Increscent is with the opening to the left, Decrescent with the opening to the right.
Yes ,the Isle of Man “ Which ever way you throw me I stand” .
Viktoria.