Author Topic: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?  (Read 413 times)

Offline GillianF

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How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« on: Yesterday at 11:13 »
This is a bit grim and I apologise.

Two of my maternal uncles were in El Alamein in WWII.  They were on patrol and one was killed.  The survivor told a story of how his brother died to the family that they were together in a lorry when they came under attack.  When I had the chance to visit El Alamein I enquired about visiting his grave and was told he had no known grave and was referred to the CWGC where he was commemorated.  After some thought on the matter I began to think it odd that the surviving brother would not have returned his wounded brother or the body to base for treatment or burial.

I know there is much confusion in war but I know from other research that soldiers buried were later exhumed and re-buried in CWGCs.  So, this raises the question as to how soldiers were buried to be exhumed some time (years?) later.

Does anyone know the answer to this please?



Audrey

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 12:29 »
If anyone knows the answer to your question it would be the CWGC. Otherwise it is not possible to generalise about what happened to individual soldiers. Every effort was made to recover the wounded, but often the only practical solution for the dead was a quick burial with the hope that it would later be possible to recover the bodies for a proper burial later.  Soldiers were supposed to record the locations of burials, but in the desert it would be more difficult to record a precise grid reference due to the lack of geographical features.  The Germans would also bury any dead they came across and then there was the problem of transmitting these details to the British. Sometimes this was done via the Red Cross, but in the heat of battle there was considerable room for error and for individuals to be missed.

One of the main reasons for burying the dead in temporary graves was to reduce the chance of the bodies being disturbed by wild animals. However a shallow grave did not offer that much protection against a determined animal like a desert fox, and so, gruesome though it sounds. it is quite possible there were no identifiable remains to be found later after the battle had moved on.

Not knowing the exact details of the attack involving your uncles, it's impossible to offer an explanation for what happened. Perhaps the vehicle they were in caught fire and so the dead brother was effectively cremated at the scene. If the surviving brother had to return to his unit on foot, he wouldn't have been able to carry his brother's body back with him, especially if he himself was wounded.

Offline Nanna52

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Re: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 12:30 »
I have a cousin killed and buried at Passchendaele in WW1.
Fighting continued in the area and as a consequence his grave was lost in repeated shelling of the area.  Therefore he has no known grave.
El Alamein was another area where there was continual fighting.  It is possible that his grave was lost or disturbed during later attacks.
James -Victoria, Australia originally from Keynsham, Somerset.
Janes - Keynsham and Bristol area.
Heale/Hale - Keynsham, Somerset
Vincent - Illogan/Redruth, Cornwall.  Moved to Sculcoates, Yorkshire; Grass Valley, California; Timaru, New Zealand and Victoria, Australia.
Williams somewhere in Wales - he kept moving
Ellis - Anglesey

Gedmatch A327531

Offline GillianF

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Re: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 14:10 »
Useful replies and sort of what I had thought but just wanted another opinion.

I think it most likely my uncle's body was buried locally but not able to be marked or retrieved at a later date.  I believe my surviving uncle told a story to the family that would be easy for them to hear rather than any unpleasant reality.

Thank you!


Offline BumbleB

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Re: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 14:46 »
I lost my grandfather in WW1 and he is commemorated at Thiepval.  I have the war diary for the Regiment - they lost 8 officers and 217 OR on that day - 7 October 1916 - 11th Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment.
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
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Offline Jebber

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Re: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 14:48 »
They are still retrieving bodies today and it will continue for some time to come. . When you think of the thousands who lost their lives it is not surprising they are not always identifiable, sometimes  the body is so badly damaged their dog tags don’t survive.

The Commonwealth War Grave Commission go to great lengths to identify every unknown body. If they have a record of the area some missing men lost their lives they use DNA of relatives to try and identify them that way and have had success that way.

CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 16:14 »
Audrey,

Rather than contacting the CWGC as I suggested earlier, you might be better raising the issue with the MOD Joint Casualty and Commpassionate Team who are based in York. They may already have an open file relating to your uncle and can tell you if any progress has been made in trying to locate his body. If they don't, you can start the process in which they will actively investigate the matter. It won't be quick, but you will at least have the satisfaction of having done something to ensure that your uncle is appropriately remembered outside his immediate family.

Also, for an idea about how slow the process of identifying unknown remains can be, take a look at this thread: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=886696.0

Offline MollyC

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Re: How were the wounded/dead dealt with?
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 18:18 »
I have a relative who was the pilot of a Halifax which came down in Normandy in July 1944.  His crew parachuted out several miles before, two were killed and the remainder became POWs.  My relative was reburied in an official cemetery on 4/3/46 as "Unidentified airman" (in a Graves Concentration report form for 9 burials).  The form has various amendments in red ink dated 11/5/46 including his name and service number being added - so nearly 2 years after the crash, a year after the end of the war, and in nearby France, this is what was happening.  I can only assume he was badly burned and was identified by the registration of the Halifax and the remainder of the crew being accounted for.  All three who died are in the same cemetery but not together,