Y111 vs Y67 test

[John-76]

We have been trying to find my great grandfather for many years.  Unfortunately we hit a brick wall at where he claimed he was born and the year.  Nothing other than this info.

In our searching process I did a Y-DNA test in 2015 and now I'm thinking about redoing the test but upgrading to the Y111 test.  The cost is approximately double and my question is will the Y111 test vs the Y67 test from 10 years ago have a significant chance of enough increased data to make much of a difference?

I apologize if I didn't clearly state my question coherently, but genealogy is a very confusing subject for me.

Thank you for any suggestions.
John

[Biggles50]

If you went the ftDNA route for your yDNA test you should not need a retest, you should be able to pay a fee to unlock the 111 markers.

I went the 111 route and at 111 markers I have only 4 matches, with 3 of them having the Surname that I was hoping for.

The Genetic Distance to link for each of these is 3, 3, 3 & 4.

My 67 markers has 15 matches of which 4 are those that I have mentioned and at this level the Genetic Distance for the 11 is 7.

It may be worthwhile upgrading if you have exhausted your atDNA searching but given that yDNA testing is not that common I would set low expectations of a result.

I have just looked and for me to update from 111 to the Big700 would cost me $239, so I’ll pass on that myself.

Before you shell out more cash can you explain what your process is with regard to DNA matches and Shared DNA matches?

[John-76]

Thanks very much for the information.  With the risk of being too long-winded I’ll give a synopsis of what I have.

My great grandfather, John Edward Blake died Oct 18, 1860 in Wilcox County, Alabama USA.  The only information that he ever gave out is that he was born in New, Haven, Connecticut USA on October 19, 1814.  No other information about him has ever been found.  It has been surmised that he relocated from New Haven in the 1830s, but that is unknown.  He died of appendicitis about 100 miles from his family and home while on a timber buying trip to northern Alabama USAf.  We found his grave a couple of years ago.  He was buried in a family cemetery (Cook family, no connection) and is the only non-Cook family member there. 

My younger sister has started a quest to learn more and has subscribed to Ancestry Pro and is working with one of their people.  I have forwarded my YDNA info to Ancestry rep and she utilized it with no more success than we already had,  She suggested I upgrade to the next level test,  That’s where I stand now.  I tried some family history searching back in the 2010-2015 era and had no luck,  I got frustrated and ceased considering it a futile undertaking.

Now do I spend the money for the Y111 test or spend even more for the one above that one?  I hesitate to take the suggestion from an Ancestry employee as completely reliable since their main goal is to make money.

Thanks for hearing my story.
John

[David Nicoll]

Personally I would treat YDNA as a last resort, I have done it and found some interesting matches, but only at the Y700 level, otherwise not really helpful.
I had missed your reply when I posted, so edited.
You have Ancestry DNA I would go with that, for a few members of the family.
It is a slow process building trees for matches and working out where they fit, but you should end up with a bunch of unexplained matches to chase down
I am currently hunting down matches with links into the 1750’s.
Ancestry currently has the biggest database so the ones to start with, but their tools are not the best.
Some of their tools are better than Ancestry, but the database is much smaller.
There are many posts on here and on line about methods of finding missing ancestors through DNA, so I won’t repost here.
The other thing would be to post some more details of your missing ancestors through DNA here.
There are some very experienced researchers, who like a tough challenge, you might be pleasantly surprised!

I am not as familiar with American research but there seems to be a John Blake recorded with spouse in the 1830 Connecticut Census of about the right age.
Finally take all ages with a good pinch of salt, I have them in my tree swinging a good ten years pre and post marriage or death of spouse.

Happy Hunting

[David Nicoll]

John,

     Hi, I could perhaps have been a little clearer myself.

     I see you have indeed been researching for a while, I found your previous post on this topic.

      https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806941.msg6659293#msg6659293

     As I previously said I would treat YDNA as a last resort. And it can be a waiting game.
     Do you have any matches with the Blake name with your existing test?
     
     My own test actually helped in a similar situation, a family who appeared in America in the 1670’s they knew not from where. However still has not given a documentary link or further detail than a more solid region of origin.
     
     As you have been looking for a while I presume you have looked at the Blake family surname project at FTDNA?

     I had a look while trying to answer your question more fully.

     You may well already be aware of the below, but there seem to be a few other people actively looking at this family on both Ancestry and MyHeritage.

     So if you have not already a MyHeritage test may be of some help

     This would seem to give parents or potential parents or relatives to try to build a match tree around.

     William Blake, Elihu Blake, John Edward Blake m Lydia Gridley 1797 Connecticut, they seem to be in New York State in 1850.

     On the same page as them in the Early Connecticut Marriages is a Thomas Blake and Sally Smith.

      Finally if you do go down the YDNA route, personally I would go Y700, it is expensive, but it gives much more granularity. A definite small group of matches to work with and a specific haplogroup.

      I upgraded mine to give that extra detail and it has certainly helped.

      Hopefully this helps you make your decision.

      PS I don’t think Ancestry to YDNA at the moment, so would not be additional money for them.

      PPS I think the answer will probably lie somewhere in the very low cM match groups that Pro Tools allows you to see, but this is currently a very manual process.  Roll on a proper cluster tool from Ancestry.

 

Happy Hunting

[David Nicoll]

Rabbit holes warning!

I just though out of amusement I would look for trees in my own Ancestry matches, with Blake and Connecticut as name and location mentioned, and lo and behold, Elizabeth Blake, which then led me to this. Fascinating reading.

A book on Our Folks - the Blake family of Connecticut and elsewhere, written in 1895.

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61157/images/46155_b290055-00000?pId=1665635

[Biggles50]

I would agree with David and to reiterate what I suggested in my prior post, exhaust the Ancestry atDNA before upgrading to the Big700.

Even if you do upgrade, do set low expectations, and as with atDNA it can be a case of waiting for more tests to show.  Whilst I did take the 111 test I only check to see if there have been new additions and in two years there have been no significant close matches.

If you have not already done so I suggest uploading the DNA to Gedmatch to see if there are any close matches there.

Something else to consider once the company troubles settle is to consider a test with 23&Me as they do have a lot of USA based testee’s.

[John-76]

Wow!  You guys are really great.  I appreciate all the suggestions and possible leads.  My Sis is spearheading this though we'll be working together. Trying to ascertain his info after 30 or 40 years of various family members' unsuccessful attempts.  I'm in my mid-80s and hope we find something concrete before I'm out'a here!

Thanks again and we'll be waiting on the new DNA test results!
Cheers,
John

[David Nicoll]

No worries, you have to think sideways and upside down sometimes.
I would try building a tree down and around from Eli Whitney Blake as an ancestor proposed in one of the docs I found. Can you find an unaccounted for John.
I have just had a mini break through of my own, 40 plus years of looking by my parents, other relatives and I. Last reference is a note by my great great grandmother in about 1920 saying, some went to Edinburgh and some to Glasgow, they’re all dead now, these were people born in the 1820’s, just found some of them, so persevere!
As I said I am looking at clusters of families in the 10cM match range in America, they are very consistent, so not bad matches, just a challenge to work out where they fit!
If you can’t find the references I found, happy to share them, PM or email if you want to send your address by PM