Author Topic: When do you have enough information?  (Read 4262 times)

Offline dobfarm

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 11 September 25 08:40 BST (UK) »
Thank you. Julia was born in 1811. I have a record of her baptism on 12th May, and of her marriage in 1827 at the age of 16. I have searched Web: Ireland, Calendar of Wills and Administrations, 1858-1920 author: Ancestry.com,publisher: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc. Her death doesn't come up.
Family search does have a lot of old land deeds and wills and there are several with Julia's name and other members of the family including John Andrew Williams. They don't say specifically that John Andrew is her son. There are records that say wife of Campbell Williams. These old deeds sometimes give relationships, and sometimes they don't. I think I can conclude that Julia Williams was his mother.

There is the point that Campbell Williams died in 1848 at least 6 years after John Andrew's birth 1840/1842 ish - so even if Julie (Knox) Williams remarried it would not have effected 'John Andrew's birth & Julia being his mother.'

I'm not sure when births started (off hand) to be recorded in Ireland but baptisms could be years after a birth year.

My opinion after 50 years doing ancestry on and off.  ::)

I also think you have achieved "Genealogical proof standard(s)" as you requested: - Therefore you do have enough information to a very high percentage or a jury standards of 'beyond reasonable doubt'


In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline Jillity

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 11 September 25 09:03 BST (UK) »
Thank you. Julia was born in 1811. I have a record of her baptism on 12th May, and of her marriage in 1827 at the age of 16. I have searched Web: Ireland, Calendar of Wills and Administrations, 1858-1920 author: Ancestry.com,publisher: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc. Her death doesn't come up.
Family search does have a lot of old land deeds and wills and there are several with Julia's name and other members of the family including John Andrew Williams. They don't say specifically that John Andrew is her son. There are records that say wife of Campbell Williams. These old deeds sometimes give relationships, and sometimes they don't. I think I can conclude that Julia Williams was his mother.

There is the point that Campbell Williams died in 1848 at least 6 years after John Andrew's birth 1840/1842 ish - so even if Julie (Knox) Williams remarried it would not have effected 'John Andrew's birth & Julia being his mother.'

I'm not sure when births started (off hand) to be recorded in Ireland but baptisms could be years after a birth year.

My opinion after 50 years doing ancestry on and off.  ::)

I also think you have achieved "Genealogical proof standard(s)" as you requested: - Therefore you do have enough information to a very high percentage or a jury standards of 'beyond doubt'
Thank you. It's me being picky. I don't think I'd be much good on a jury. It's great to get other people's opinions. Campbell died in 1848. It's on the family headstone in Mount Jerome, Dublin. I have traced my family back to William the Conqueror through Julia Knox. She was part of a wealthy family who married into the aristocracy. William was my 25th Great grandfather. I didn't think he was much good as a king. I had been hoping for a jolly Irish family who loved music and dancing, but you can't change your ancestors.

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 11 September 25 09:07 BST (UK) »

Quote
He was born in Queenstown which is now Cork, in 1840.

Queenstown is now Cobh.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6934508#map=12/51.8659/-8.3342


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 11 September 25 09:09 BST (UK) »

Quote
I'm not sure when births started (off hand) to be recorded in Ireland but baptisms could be years after a birth year.

Civil registration of births in Ireland started in 1864.


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo


Offline dobfarm

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 11 September 25 09:17 BST (UK) »
Added

It would be a big surprise if Campbell Williams did not leave a Will being a solicitor.  - So an independent search at the physical archives were the records are held my produce results 'maybe of both parents Wills search - Campbell 1484-1858


'Good hunting'

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/world-records/full-list-of-the-irish-family-history-records/life-events-birth-marriage-death/index-of-irish-wills-1484-1858


Regards Dave

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 11 September 25 09:19 BST (UK) »

Quote
I'm not sure when births started (off hand) to be recorded in Ireland but baptisms could be years after a birth year.

Civil registration of births in Ireland started in 1864.

Thanks,

I do very little ancestry research for Ireland.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Online BushInn1746

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 11 September 25 10:10 BST (UK) »
I have a lot of information about my great grandfather. I have his father's name, where he was born, who his sisters were. I know who he married and the names of his children. I have his marriage certificates and his death certificate. The one thing I've never found is any kind of record of his birth or baptism, and therefore I have never found anything that tells me his mother's name. I know his father was called William Campbell Williams or sometimes he was called Campbell William Williams. I know he was married to Julia Williams nee Knox There are several land transaction documents online that name the members of the family including my great grandfather. Not one of them specifically says Julia was his mother although she did leave him property. His name was John Andrew, the same as Julia's brother. He called his first daughter Maria Julia. One of his sisters was called Hannah Maria. I have DNA matches to people in the Knox family. Do you think this is enough evidence to conclude that Julia was his mother or should I keep looking?
The reason this is important to me is that if Julia was his mother, then her family goes back all the way to William the Conqueror. If his mother was Bridie from round the corner, then I'm probably descended from the local washerwoman. I'm not sure if I want the royal ancestors or not. They were pretty awful.

I had the same information about my Gt Grandfather as you (my Gt Grandfather was born 1884, the exact Birth date I didn't know to begin with) and my Gt Grandfather has a full Civil Birth Certificate which gives parentage.

Also have you found the relatives that you know are your actual relatives, in a Census yet?

It is no good looking at other Trees and assuming them to be correct, some are not and some have then copied the errors of others.

I have seen a Tree this week where someone is linking my earlier family to Dorset without the slightest scrap of evidence!

They have assumed that my 4 x Gt Grandfather was 20 years old when he married in 1815 and looked at the rounding down on the 1841 Census. Had they applied and got his Marriage Licence and Bond they would see that his age was 28, but the writing is so faint in the Register the 8 (in 28) looks like 20, but now I know it should be 28 years from the Licence, I can see in the Register it should read 28 years.

The 1841 Census does not agree with Dorset either. He was born in the same County, which should mean Yorkshire.

You need to get the paperwork and work back methodically step by step, using the Census (unless you are before the Census and Civil Registration (or the Census is one of the few images that are missing).

Mark

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 11 September 25 10:37 BST (UK) »
Oh Ireland is more difficult.

You will need a Sign-in to Family Search, but I have been finding Irish Land Documents and other items here (including where the people have links to places in England) ...

https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/full-text/results?count=20&q.text=%22Dennis%20helsdon%22

There are a lot of links from here
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/irish-records/records/

I can't remember which link I used now, but managed to download some Civil Certificates images for free.

Mark

Offline Sinann

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 11 September 25 11:22 BST (UK) »
The Julia nee Knox who died 21 Dec 1887 appears to be Julia Barlow (Family Search tree Williams tree)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1887/06198/4772423.pdf

https://willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014902/005014902_00023.pdf

I think she married James Barlow in 1856 in Dublin
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09509/5446418.pdf
The cert doesn’t indicate she was ever married to Williams

There is a second marriage of Julia Barlow nee Knox widow to William James Barlow 1859, possibly the same woman.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1859/09577/5472514.pdf
But again nothing to indicate she was ever Williams.

As you said there are land records from the 1870s giving Julia Williams nee Knox, living in Limerick, no mention of Barlow. Than she seems to disappear.