Author Topic: When do you have enough information?  (Read 4258 times)

Offline Jillity

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When do you have enough information?
« on: Wednesday 10 September 25 20:48 BST (UK) »
I have a lot of information about my great grandfather. I have his father's name, where he was born, who his sisters were. I know who he married and the names of his children. I have his marriage certificates and his death certificate. The one thing I've never found is any kind of record of his birth or baptism, and therefore I have never found anything that tells me his mother's name. I know his father was called William Campbell Williams or sometimes he was called Campbell William Williams. I know he was married to Julia Williams nee Knox There are several land transaction documents online that name the members of the family including my great grandfather. Not one of them specifically says Julia was his mother although she did leave him property. His name was John Andrew, the same as Julia's brother. He called his first daughter Maria Julia. One of his sisters was called Hannah Maria. I have DNA matches to people in the Knox family. Do you think this is enough evidence to conclude that Julia was his mother or should I keep looking?
The reason this is important to me is that if Julia was his mother, then her family goes back all the way to William the Conqueror. If his mother was Bridie from round the corner, then I'm probably descended from the local washerwoman. I'm not sure if I want the royal ancestors or not. They were pretty awful.

Online Biggles50

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 10 September 25 21:10 BST (UK) »
Campbell William Williams and Julia Knox were recorded as getting married in Dublin in 1827.

There are 16 family trees on Ancestry with the  so you may like to compare what they have with the info you have.

DNA can validate the lines if you can populate and verify each person with the usual records.

One tree has Hannah Maria b1829 and Julia b1830.

Offline dobfarm

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 10 September 25 21:31 BST (UK) »
If you could list a few details of your great grand father.

(1) His age on his death certificate with year of death, the year he married and his age on his marriage certificate or church register .
(2) Where you think he was born or baptised
(3) You say you know he had sisters, well their births certificates will give their mothers first name and maiden name.
(4) Time period - the census years post Sept 1837/ GRO BMD's may give help or if more recent the 1939 register may help giving address and date of birth.

There are some members who are good at tracking down info or researching who will help you, but they need something to work from.

(I found these info links)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=871091.msg7422479#msg7422479

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=778193.msg6321392#msg6321392 8)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891622.new#new

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891620.msg7656533#msg7656533

As for your question - Info on ancestors turns up in very strange places at unexpected times sometimes - so you never know whats round the corner. :o  ;D  :)
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline Jillity

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 10 September 25 22:16 BST (UK) »
Campbell William Williams and Julia Knox were recorded as getting married in Dublin in 1827.

There are 16 family trees on Ancestry with the  so you may like to compare what they have with the info you have.

DNA can validate the lines if you can populate and verify each person with the usual records.

One tree has Hannah Maria b1829 and Julia b1830.
Several of the trees are my family members and people who have asked to look at my tree and copy it. Some are private and haven't replied to messages. I'm just wondering if I can safely assume that Julia was his mother.


Offline Jillity

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 10 September 25 22:30 BST (UK) »
If you could list a few details of your great grand father.

(1) His age on his death certificate with year of death, the year he married and his age on his marriage certificate or church register .
(2) Where you think he was born or baptised
(3) You say you know he had sisters, well their births certificates will give their mothers first name and maiden name.
(4) Time period - the census years post Sept 1837/ GRO BMD's may give help or if more recent the 1939 register may help giving address and date of birth.

There are some members who are good at tracking down info or researching who will help you, but they need something to work from.

(I found these info links)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=871091.msg7422479#msg7422479

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=778193.msg6321392#msg6321392 8)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891622.new#new

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891620.msg7656533#msg7656533

As for your question - Info on ancestors turns up in very strange places at unexpected times sometimes - so you never know whats round the corner. :o  ;D  :)
He was born in Queenstown which is now Cork, in 1840. His father was a Dublin solicitior so he may have been baptised in Dublin, or not baptised at all. Maybe the record was never digitised. The person I am pretty sure must be his mother, Julia Williams nee Knox, was the daughter of a reverend.  Ancestry says I have 20 records and 28 sources. His first marriage certificate gives the name William Williams as his father, the second marriage certificate says William Campbell Williams. It's the land transactions that make me think my assumption is correct, that Julia Williams is his birth mother. She is the mother of his sister. Later in life, he conveys some property to his sister, Hannah Maria. Also the DNA connections to the Knox family. The info links were my previous posts. This search has been ongoing in the family for several years and none of us have been able to find the answer. There is only one thing left to search if I can find the right documents, and that is probably in the national archives in Kew. I need to identify the correct document and ask them to send me a copy as it hasn't been digitised. It's the list of people who qualified as marine engineers. That may give the names of both parents.

Offline Zaphod99

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 10 September 25 22:39 BST (UK) »
Jillity, research "Genealogical proof standard". 

Zaph

Offline Jillity

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 10 September 25 23:12 BST (UK) »
Jillity, research "Genealogical proof standard". 

Zaph
Thank you.

Offline dobfarm

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 11 September 25 01:43 BST (UK) »
If you could list a few details of your great grand father.

(1) His age on his death certificate with year of death, the year he married and his age on his marriage certificate or church register .
(2) Where you think he was born or baptised
(3) You say you know he had sisters, well their births certificates will give their mothers first name and maiden name.
(4) Time period - the census years post Sept 1837/ GRO BMD's may give help or if more recent the 1939 register may help giving address and date of birth.

There are some members who are good at tracking down info or researching who will help you, but they need something to work from.

(I found these info links)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=871091.msg7422479#msg7422479

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=778193.msg6321392#msg6321392 8)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891622.new#new

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891620.msg7656533#msg7656533

As for your question - Info on ancestors turns up in very strange places at unexpected times sometimes - so you never know whats round the corner. :o  ;D  :)
He was born in Queenstown which is now Cork, in 1840. His father was a Dublin solicitior so he may have been baptised in Dublin, or not baptised at all. Maybe the record was never digitised. The person I am pretty sure must be his mother, Julia Williams nee Knox, was the daughter of a reverend.  Ancestry says I have 20 records and 28 sources. His first marriage certificate gives the name William Williams as his father, the second marriage certificate says William Campbell Williams. It's the land transactions that make me think my assumption is correct, that Julia Williams is his birth mother. She is the mother of his sister. Later in life, he conveys some property to his sister, Hannah Maria. Also the DNA connections to the Knox family. The info links were my previous posts. This search has been ongoing in the family for several years and none of us have been able to find the answer. There is only one thing left to search if I can find the right documents, and that is probably in the national archives in Kew. I need to identify the correct document and ask them to send me a copy as it hasn't been digitised. It's the list of people who qualified as marine engineers. That may give the names of both parents.


Quote You above : "Later in life, he conveys some property to his sister, Hannah Maria." Unquote:

If you have written proof Hannah Maria was sister to your great granddad John Andrew Williams and Julia Knox was mother and father Campbell Williams was parents of Hannah Maria Williams. Thats proof to a point unless John Andrew Williams was adopted - But John Andrew William marriage says his father was Campbell William Williams, or William Campbell Williams.

According to familysearch (LDS) Ireland Probate Will Citation (Click on her death date and look at right hand box for citation look for ' Death •[Click on blue 1 Source] 21 Dec 1887 Dublin ') - Julia (Knox) Williams born 1811 - died 21 Dec 1887 Dublin long after John Andrew Williams was born 1840/1842 Cork  - Campbell Williams and Julia Knox married well before 1840 -


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:325Z-HZK?lang=en

( if you are not registered to log in - then register with familysearch first to log in)
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline Jillity

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Re: When do you have enough information?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 11 September 25 08:18 BST (UK) »
Thank you. Julia was born in 1811. I have a record of her baptism on 12th May, and of her marriage in 1827 at the age of 16. I have searched Web: Ireland, Calendar of Wills and Administrations, 1858-1920 author: Ancestry.com,publisher: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc. Her death doesn't come up.
Family search does have a lot of old land deeds and wills and there are several with Julia's name and other members of the family including John Andrew Williams. They don't say specifically that John Andrew is her son. There are records that say wife of Campbell Williams. These old deeds sometimes give relationships, and sometimes they don't. I think I can conclude that Julia Williams was his mother.