Interpreting (not Deciphering) a 1706 Will

[Buffnut453]

I traced one branch of my family tree to a 7th Great-Grandfather of mine, Henry Bate (1666-1728), whose father was William Bate (d 1706), both of Culcheth, Lancashire.  A marriage record for William Bate from Warrington in 1665 lists his wife as Jane Hussey.  There's also a Christening record for a second son, James in 1671. 

A 1706 will for William Bate of Culcheth has some intriguing similarities but also some major discrepancies.  I'm trying to interpret the will and make sure I'm not jumping to conclusions.

The will identifies sons Henry and James but grants nothing to them, although Henry is charged with paying a sum from the estate he holds to William's "deare wife" Margaret.  The will also leaves sums to William's other children, some 6 in total (John, Mary, Alice, Sarah Margery and Catherine).  The will also mentions a son-in-law, Thomas Farnworth, who gets "one shilling and noe more."

My challenge is the complete lack of corresponding church records.  There's no burial record for a Jane Bate (William's first wife), no marriage to a Margaret, and no Christening records for any of the 6 additional children.  I also can't find a marriage for any female Bate to a Thomas Farnworth between 1683 and 1706.

Having pored over these details, my thinking is that William's first wife, Jane, died sometime after 1671 and that William's eldest sons, Henry and James, were granted some holdings while their father was alive which afforded them a good living, which might explain why William focused the bequests in his will on the younger children.  I may be reading too much into the language but the fact that Margaret is not described as Henry's mother might be telling.

I'd appreciate any thoughts from the experts here.  Happy to share the transcript if that helps. 

[goldie61]

The problem is the Culcheth registers have many missing pages.
You can view the book of the registers on MyHeritage. (I can't see if the registers are on familysearch, as the 'search' and 'search catalogue' facilities are not working - they have done a big 'update' - HA!)

It looks like whoever was the incumbrent there in the mid 1600s did not do a great job at keeping up the registers. Perhaps there was no incumbrent for some of the time, (it has been known).
Between about 1654 and 1681 there are no marriage entries at all, and some of those years there are no baptisms or burials; some years there are just one or two - usually for the family which looks as though they were the Lord of the Manor, (Holcroft) - perhaps he filled in the register himself.

It looks as though these are the years in which the other children will have been born.

Do you know for a fact that the name of the mother of the first two children was Jane?
I can see no mother's name on their baptisms.
'Henry son of Willem Bete 4 febrery 1665' - as written.

Although you have found a marriage for a William 'Baate' to a Jane Hussey in Warrington in 1665, this may not be the same William Bate.
Have you searched for other children around Warrington for this William Bate and Jane?

If the name of the wife in the will is Margaret, perhaps that had been his one and only wife, and their marriage is one that is missing from the Culcheth registers.
No burial for a Jane Bate, but again missing years at the pertinent dates.
A Margaret Bate was buried 5th June 1712 which is probably her, although again nothing else is written in the register.

As the Chucheth registers are a poor source of information, other avenues could be helpful

Have you found the parents of Jame Hussey?
Did her father leave a will? There may be some mention of Bate grandchildren.

There are baptisms to other Bate families in the Chucheth registers - I saw Roger, Robert, Gilbert and John, but there may be others. You should check.
Have you followed these other Bate lines? Did any of then leave will? Once again your Bate children may be mentioned.
I have found the wills of bachelor uncles and spinster aunts to be particularly useful, as, having no children themseves, they tended to leave items to nephews and neices and wives of their brothers and sisters
 
I did see the surname Bate in the Culcheth registers in the early 1600s.
It looks as though they have been there for some time.

I see 'Wm Bate junior,' along with 'James Batte' and  'Hamlet Batte' (I saw a couple of baptisms with him as the father), are listed in the 1664 Hearth Tax at Culcheth.
'Henry Baite' is at 'Croft' - another place that turns up in the Culcheth registers - it must have been very close). 'Margery Baite' also at Croft, John, James, Robert, Cicely ................
https://gams.uni-graz.at/o:htx.lnc5
 

[goldie61]

Added - just looked on findmypast.
There is a will for Hamlet Bate in 1678, husbandman of Culcheth.
That's a start! 

I see there is also a will for Henry that died in 1728. Does that give any clues?

Was William's father also Henry? There's a baptism in 1631 for William, father Henry.
Also a couple of wills for a Henry - one in 1679, one in 1684.
Some or all of the children would have been born by then, and they may name William's wife.

[Bookbox]

The problem is the Culcheth registers have many missing pages.
You can view the book of the registers on MyHeritage. (I can't see if the registers are on familysearch, as the 'search' and 'search catalogue' facilities are not working - they have done a big 'update' - HA!)

It looks like whoever was the incumbrent there in the mid 1600s did not do a great job at keeping up the registers. Perhaps there was no incumbrent for some of the time, (it has been known).
Between about 1654 and 1681 there are no marriage entries at all, and some of those years there are no baptisms or burials; some years there are just one or two - usually for the family which looks as though they were the Lord of the Manor, (Holcroft) - perhaps he filled in the register himself.

It looks as though these are the years in which the other children will have been born.

But those registers on MH and FamilySearch, with so many missing years, are surely the bishop's transcripts.

The extent of the early surviving parish registers for Culcheth can be seen in the online catalogue of Cheshire Archives ...
https://catalogue.cheshirearchives.org.uk/records/P_299/1/1/1

The images of the above register are on FindMyPast. Have you tried browsing the register rather than relying on the index?

[PrawnCocktail]

These years include the Civil War period, when many registers have few to no register entries for many years. And what there are are often the well-to-do or the clerk's own family, when you have a good look at them. It is nearly always difficult to bridge the Civil War gap. Registers frequently didn't restart straight after 1660, the country took a while to recover, and keeping records wasn't the top of their priority list. Many baptisms either didn't happen, or went unrecorded.

Culcheth seems to have been a chapelry of Winwick, and there is one entry in Winwick in 1661 for Elizabeth daughter of William of Culcheth.

I did also find, on FindMyPast, an entry on a list of marriages for 1676 for a William Bates and Margaret Rydings, labelled "Ould Withington". Unfortunately FindMyPast didn't say what the register was, nor can I find the marriage mentioned anywhere else!

[goldie61]

The problem is the Culcheth registers have many missing pages.
You can view the book of the registers on MyHeritage. (I can't see if the registers are on familysearch, as the 'search' and 'search catalogue' facilities are not working - they have done a big 'update' - HA!)

It looks like whoever was the incumbrent there in the mid 1600s did not do a great job at keeping up the registers. Perhaps there was no incumbrent for some of the time, (it has been known).
Between about 1654 and 1681 there are no marriage entries at all, and some of those years there are no baptisms or burials; some years there are just one or two - usually for the family which looks as though they were the Lord of the Manor, (Holcroft) - perhaps he filled in the register himself.

It looks as though these are the years in which the other children will have been born.

But those registers on MH and FamilySearch, with so many missing years, are surely the bishop's transcripts.

No I don't think they are the Bishop's Transcripts Bookbox.
The images on My Heritage are from "The Registers of Newchurch in the Township of Culcheth".
It's one of those printed books you get from time to time done many years ago.
They are not just an index, but a transcription of the actual register.
Whoever transcribed them must also have crossed referenced with the Bishop's Transcripts, as occasionally as you browse through them, you get an additional piece of information added from
"E. T." which I think means Episcopal Transcript.
See clips below.

[goldie61]

"WITHINGTON (OLD), a township in the parish of PRESTBURY, hundred of MACCLESFIELD, county palatine of CHESTER, 7½ miles (N,N,W.) from Congleton, containing 164 inhabitants." [From Samuel Lewis A Topographical Dictionary of England  (1831) İMel Lockie]"

It is about 23 miles SE of Cuicheth.

[Buffnut453]

The problem is the Culcheth registers have many missing pages.
You can view the book of the registers on MyHeritage. (I can't see if the registers are on familysearch, as the 'search' and 'search catalogue' facilities are not working - they have done a big 'update' - HA!)

It looks like whoever was the incumbrent there in the mid 1600s did not do a great job at keeping up the registers. Perhaps there was no incumbrent for some of the time, (it has been known).
Between about 1654 and 1681 there are no marriage entries at all, and some of those years there are no baptisms or burials; some years there are just one or two - usually for the family which looks as though they were the Lord of the Manor, (Holcroft) - perhaps he filled in the register himself.

It looks as though these are the years in which the other children will have been born.

Do you know for a fact that the name of the mother of the first two children was Jane?
I can see no mother's name on their baptisms.
'Henry son of Willem Bete 4 febrery 1665' - as written.

Although you have found a marriage for a William 'Baate' to a Jane Hussey in Warrington in 1665, this may not be the same William Bate.
Have you searched for other children around Warrington for this William Bate and Jane?

If the name of the wife in the will is Margaret, perhaps that had been his one and only wife, and their marriage is one that is missing from the Culcheth registers.
No burial for a Jane Bate, but again missing years at the pertinent dates.
A Margaret Bate was buried 5th June 1712 which is probably her, although again nothing else is written in the register.

As the Chucheth registers are a poor source of information, other avenues could be helpful

Have you found the parents of Jame Hussey?
Did her father leave a will? There may be some mention of Bate grandchildren.

There are baptisms to other Bate families in the Chucheth registers - I saw Roger, Robert, Gilbert and John, but there may be others. You should check.
Have you followed these other Bate lines? Did any of then leave will? Once again your Bate children may be mentioned.
I have found the wills of bachelor uncles and spinster aunts to be particularly useful, as, having no children themseves, they tended to leave items to nephews and neices and wives of their brothers and sisters
 
I did see the surname Bate in the Culcheth registers in the early 1600s.
It looks as though they have been there for some time.

I see 'Wm Bate junior,' along with 'James Batte' and  'Hamlet Batte' (I saw a couple of baptisms with him as the father), are listed in the 1664 Hearth Tax at Culcheth.
'Henry Baite' is at 'Croft' - another place that turns up in the Culcheth registers - it must have been very close). 'Margery Baite' also at Croft, John, James, Robert, Cicely ................
https://gams.uni-graz.at/o:htx.lnc5

Many thanks for responding to my question, and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. 

I really appreciated the insights into the lack of consistent records in Culcheth.  It's a real challenge, hence my question.

I'm not 100% convinced that the 1665 marriage of William Bate and Jane Hussey in Warrington is the right one but it's the only one in the area that matches the timing for the Christening of Henry Bate in on 4 Feb 1665/66.  There is a later Christening of another Henry Bate, son of William, in 1676 but that's too late to by "my" Henry who married around 1691 (again, no marriage record for him).

I haven't identified Jane Hussey's parents yet.  There are a few Christenings of Jane Husseys in Warrington in the 1630-1645 timeframe, most having a father's name of John.  Unfortunately, most of them seem to have died, and I've not been able to tie down whether there was only one John Hussey or multiples of them in Warrington at that time.   

My concern with the idea of William only marrying once is that his later children would be quite old at the time of his death in 1706.  Since "my" Henry was born in 1666 and another son, James, born in 1671, the 6 children named in the will would likely be born in the period 1673-1683 (assuming a fairly typical 2 years in between births).  That would make the youngest child 23 and the eldest 33 at the time of William Bate's death and yet only one son-in-law is named, and William is at pains to make provision for his younger children.  I think it's more logical that the 6 younger children were more likely in their teens to early twenties at the time William died...however, happy to be persuaded if my logic isn't sound.

It's certainly something of a tangle.  I'm just trying to make the best family alignment given the paucity of records.  That's why I find will and probate records so useful; they often include names of children that lack Christening records.

[Buffnut453]

These years include the Civil War period, when many registers have few to no register entries for many years. And what there are are often the well-to-do or the clerk's own family, when you have a good look at them. It is nearly always difficult to bridge the Civil War gap. Registers frequently didn't restart straight after 1660, the country took a while to recover, and keeping records wasn't the top of their priority list. Many baptisms either didn't happen, or went unrecorded.

Culcheth seems to have been a chapelry of Winwick, and there is one entry in Winwick in 1661 for Elizabeth daughter of William of Culcheth.

I did also find, on FindMyPast, an entry on a list of marriages for 1676 for a William Bates and Margaret Rydings, labelled "Ould Withington". Unfortunately FindMyPast didn't say what the register was, nor can I find the marriage mentioned anywhere else!

Thanks for the insights...to my great shame, it never occurred to me that the Civil War would impact the recording of church events.  The Battle of Winwick in August 1648 certainly would have disrupted things for the locals. 

I'd seen the marriage of William Bates and Margaret Rydeing in 1676 but that seems rather too distant from Winwick to be the right family. 

'Tis frustrating!