A butcher, a baker... by the name of Wilson (possibly Sorbie, Wigtown)

[Lught-thie]

Hi,

I'm looking for information about one of my ancestors: a Scotsman by the name of James Wilson.

I know for sure that he was born in Scotland, sometime between 1817 and 1821 (his age isn't consistent on the two censuses on which he appears) and that he was a baker, living in Carlisle, when he married Hannah Lishman of Ulverston, Lancashire (now Cumbria), in Ulverston 23 Feb 1839. The marriage record names his father as Thomas Wilson, a butcher.

I have found a James Wilson, baptised 20 July 1817 in Sorbie, Wigtown, with parents Thomas Wilson and Mary Simpson. Would anyone be in a position to help me find out whether this Thomas Wilson was likely to have been a butcher? Or can anyone think of any other ways I might be able to confirm whether this is likely to be the right Thomas?

Thanks for any help you can offer! 

[ColC]

Do any of the records you have seen indicate that he was born in Wigtonshire?
I note on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk that there were 12 James Wilson’s father Thomas born/baptised 1817/1821.
Colin

[CaroleW]

GRO online shows 2 children b Liverpool mmn Lishman

John Dec 1841
Elizabeth Ann 1844

[Lught-thie]

Do any of the records you have seen indicate that he was born in Wigtonshire?
I note on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk that there were 12 James Wilson’s father Thomas born/baptised 1817/1821.
Colin

No, I've no evidence that he was born in Wigtownshire; I only know that he was born in Scotland. I chose the Sorbie James Wilson as a starting point, due to the proximity to Carlisle (where James and Hannah married): I was hoping to find some evidence that would help me either eliminate him or provide corroboration.

GRO online shows 2 children b Liverpool mmn Lishman

John Dec 1841
Elizabeth Ann 1844

I believe James and Hannah had 8 children: John, James Lishman, William Edwin, Wallace, Wallace, Charles, Elizabeth Ann and Hannah. I have found them on the censuses: in Liverpool in 1841, then Menai Bridge in 1851, then the widowed Hannah remarried (her second husband was Matthew Greaves) and settled in Ulverston.

[ColC]

I note 7 of children you mention, 6 in Liverpool and Hannah in Ulverstone, note below there were 2 others in Ulverstone.

WILSON, HANNAH    mmn LISHMAN  
GRO Reference: 1854  M Quarter in ULVERSTONE UNION  Volume 08E  Page 561

WILSON, WALTER   1855 ULVERSTONE UNION
WILSON, GORDON 1856   ULVERSTONE UNION

I was hoping that the names of any females might give a clue to the wife of Thomas but of 12 records 1817 – 1821 there are none. Do you know where and when Hannah was born?

As for James 1817 Sorbie, distance may not be the answer, if it is there are two closer.

Sorbie, Wigtownshire is 59 miles W of St Cuthbert, Cumberland .

JAMES WILSON 29/09/1819 Dumfries THOMAS WILSON & MARY FORRESTER

Dumfries, Dumfriesshire is 28 miles NW of St Cuthbert, Cumberland

JAMES WILSON 17/04/1819 Penpont THOMAS WILSON & AGNES THOMSON

Penpont, Dumfriesshire is 47 miles NW of St Cuthbert, Cumberland.

But the other 9 should not be discounted.

Colin

[Forfarian]

There are 245 deaths of James Wilsons, born 1819 plus or minus 5 years, in the Scottish deaths indexes.

There are two with mother's maiden surname Simpson and three with mother's maiden surname Thomson. You could check these in the hope of eliminating them. You could even do the same for the rest of the James Wilsons with father Thomas.

Does James' marriage certificate say that his father Thomas was deceased? If not, you could try checking all the Thomas Wilsons in the 1841 census to see if any of them are butchers/fleshers. That could be a long job but you never know, it just might turn up an answer.

I wonder why James named two sons Wallace? Might there be a clue there?

[Forfarian]

Sorbie, Wigtownshire is 59 miles W of St Cuthbert, Cumberland

and 94 miles by road from Carlisle*. Though it was probably possible to shorten the journey by going by sea.

Dumfries, Dumfriesshire is 28 miles NW of St Cuthbert, Cumberland

and 33 miles by road from Carlisle.

Penpont, Dumfriesshire is 47 miles NW of St Cuthbert, Cumberland

and 50 miles by road from Carlisle.

But the other 9 should not be discounted.

Indeed; nor should the possibility that he is a 13th one whose baptism record, if it ever existed, has not survived.

*The AA Route Planner doesn't know about St Cuthbert!

[ColC]

The mileage was as the crow flies to illustrate a point.

Colin

[Forfarian]

Indeed it is.

But Carlisle to Sorbie involves the additional complication of the Solway Firth in the way, making it even further than as the crow flies, both in absolute terms and even more relative to Penpont and Dumfries, thus reinforcing your point.