Author Topic: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie  (Read 3298 times)

Offline KrisWilson

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Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« on: Sunday 24 August 25 23:11 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone was able to help me with finding a birth certificate or more information on the parents of my x3 great grandparents from Drumbeg, Assynt, Sutherland.

I cannot find a birth certificate for Hugh Kerr and the father on his death record seems to be his step-father so his mother may have been married before or he was illegitimate.

Here are the details I have:

Hugh Kerr
B:1795-1801 - D:1885

1825 Marriage
Hugh Kerr and Janet MacKenzie both in Drumbaig,
Married at Tumore by Rev Donald MacKenzie Minister of Assynt
9 Mar 1825

1841 Census
Hugh Kerr 40 (Tenant) B:1801
Jannet Kerr 35
Murdoch Kerr 14
Peggy Kerr 12
Christian Kerr 10
Alex Kerr 8
John Kerr 6
Margaret Kerr 1
- Drumbeg, Assynt

1851 Census
Hugh Kerr 56 (Lotter) B:1795
Janet Kerr 48 (Wife)
Jane Kerr 24 (Gen Serv)
Margt Kerr 18 (Gen Serv)
Christy Kerr 16 (Gen Serv)
John Kerr 12 (Scholar)
Margt Kerr 10 (Scholar)
Ket Kerr 8 (Scholar)
Ann Kerr 5
William Matheson 80 Visitor, Pauper
- Drumbeg, Assynt

Census 1861
Hugh Kerr 63 (Crofter) B:1798
Janet Kerr 59 (Wife)
Alexr Kerr 24 (Son, Talior)
John Kerr 22 (Son)
Margaret Kerr 19 (Daughter)
- Private House, Drumbeg, Assynt

Census 1871
Hugh Kerr 73 (Tenant) B:1798
Janet Kerr 70 (Wife)
Alexr Kerr 24 (Son, Talior)
John Kerr 22 (Son)
Alex Campbell 24 (Visitor)
- Drumbeg, Assynt

Wife Janet Died 1877
Aged 76, she was marked illegitimate and her mother was Christy MacKenzie on her death record, I found a birth record in 1801 for a Jannet, natural daughter of Alexander MacKenzie which may be her father.

Census 1881
Hugh Kerr 80 Widower (Crofter) B:1801
John Kerr 40 (Fisherman)
Margaret Kerr 30 (Daughter) (My x2 great grandmother)
Hugh Stewart 10 (Grandson) (My great grandfather, born Portree)
Isabella Kerr 35 (Dau-in-law)
- Lochinver to Drumbeg
Drumbeg, Assynt

Valuation Rolls 1855-85
No. 156 - Hugh Kerr (Tenant)
The OS Six Inch, 1888-1915 map on maps.nls.uk has a .156 on the map in Drumbeg, would this be the location of the land he was tenant on?

Died 1885
Aged 88 - Widow of Jannet McKenzie

Parents on Death Record:
Alexander McKenzie & Anne McKenzie (MS: McLeod)
This is possibly his step-father as this couple married in 1840 and Hugh was around 43 at the time.

Both parents were marked as deceased so died before 1885 but I can’t seem to pin point their exact death records.

I also can’t find a first marriage for his mother Anne McLeod pre-1840.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #1 on: Monday 25 August 25 09:29 BST (UK) »
You say in your opening post

Parents on Death Record:
Alexander McKenzie & Anne McKenzie (MS: McLeod)
This is possibly his step-father as this couple married in 1840 and Hugh was around 43 at the time.

Do you have a ref for this marriage please.

SS

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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #2 on: Monday 25 August 25 09:50 BST (UK) »
First, there is no birth certificate, because birth certificates did not exist until civil registration began in 1855.

The best you can hope for would be a record of baptism, but, realistically, if you have drawn a complete blank at Scotland's People, any such record, if it ever existed, has not survived.

As for the 1840 marriage, the most likely explanation is that this is a different couple with the same names. Both Alexander M(a)ckenzie and Ann(e) M(a)cLeod are very common names. There are actually four such marriages on record between 1819 and 1841.

A couple named Alexander Mackenzie and Ann MacLeod had a son Alexander, baptised in Assynt in 1833, and a son Kenneth, baptised in Assynt in 1836. In 1841 this family was living at Elphin in Assynt, Alexander and Ann both recorded as 35, i.e. born between 1801 and 1806. Is this yet another couple with the same names, or is this the couple whose marriage is recorded in 1840? If the latter, Ann is clearly not the mother of Hugh Kerr, who was several years older than she was. What does the marriage record actually say?

As for the census, I see that you have listed (supposed) years of birth. The original census never states a year of birth. It gives the age the person claimed to be on the date of the census. As the census was taken about a quarter of the way through the year, you get the wrong birth year three-quarters of the time if you subtract the person's age from the census year. For reasons I fail to understand, most of the web sites that have census transcriptions introduce an error by doing exactly that - adding a piece of 75% inaccurate information to what is actually in the original document.

Also, in 1801, adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years.

In 1841, Hugh is recorded as aged 40, so if that is accurate he was born between 1796 and 1801
In 1851, he is recorded as aged 54, so if that is accurate he was born in 1796 or 1797
In 1861, he is recorded as aged 63, so if that is accurate he was born in 1797 or 1798
In 1871, he is recorded as aged 73, so if that is accurate he was born in 1797 or 1798
In 1881, he is recorded as aged 80, so if that is accurate he was born in 1800 or 1801
As these dates do not all overlap, clearly at least one of them is not accurate. Probably the 1881 age, as all the rest are consistent.

So it does look as if he was born about 1797. Unfortunately the surviving register of baptisms for the parish of Assynt starts in 1798, so quite possibly after Hugh's baptism.

However .... I note that Hugh's first child was Murdoch. Have you viewed Murdoch's baptism (and those of his siblings) to see whether or not the names of any witnesses are recorded? If so, they often provide clues to other members of the wider family. See screenshot.

If (and it's a big if) Hugh and Janet followed the naming tradition, I'd expect Hugh's parents' names to be Murdoch and Marion (Merran), and Janet's to be Alexander and Jean. Who registered the deaths of Hugh and Janet?







Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #3 on: Monday 25 August 25 10:56 BST (UK) »
Do you have a ref for this marriage please.
See screenshot.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #4 on: Monday 25 August 25 11:20 BST (UK) »
Valuation Rolls 1855-85
No. 156 - Hugh Kerr (Tenant)
The OS Six Inch, 1888-1915 map on maps.nls.uk has a .156 on the map in Drumbeg, would this be the location of the land he was tenant on?
Sorry, missed this earlier.

No.

156 is a spot height. It's the height in feet of the land above sea level at that point. If you scroll down the map past Loch Dhrombaig you will see a line of spot heights running east-west.

If you go to FreeCEN www.freecen.org.uk and look up your Hugh Kerr in 1841, you can then use the buttons for 'previous dwelling' and 'next dwelling' to find out who his neighbours were. For example, the previous dwelling was occupied by Ann Kerr, aged 60, with Ann Kerr, 20 and Alexander Kerr, 15. Could this be Hugh's mother? There are also lots more Mackenzies, Macleods and Kerrs in Drumbeg. Might be worth looking st some of them to see if they could be related.

Unfortunately FreeCEN only has the 1841 census so far.

However some of the commercial sites have, in Drumbeg in 1851, Anne Kerr, 80, and her son Alexander, 40. Might this be your Anne MacLeod?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #5 on: Monday 25 August 25 12:16 BST (UK) »
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Offline KrisWilson

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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #6 on: Monday 25 August 25 13:35 BST (UK) »
Thank you all for the speedy responses I have responded to both of your queries below:

Forfarian:

Thank you for all of that information, it’s great to get an outsiders perspective on everything!

I should have noted the year of births marked next to Hughs name in each census was for my reference to work out a possible range of when he may have been born, apologies.

All of the information listed above from the census I have bought the records so can confirm that is what is on the originals. (apart from the birth year estimates.)

I was also thinking that naming convention could come into play, so that might be a great research point to have a look at.

Thank you for the note about the spot height, thought that might be too good to be true.

That’s a good point maybe the baptisms of his children have more information on potential grandparents/family.

Hughs death was registered by John Kerr his son and Janets was registered by Hugh Kerr.

The thing that puzzles me is that Hughs surname is Kerr and his marked father was a MacKenzie, would there be any other reason for this?


SS:


I have just purchased the 1840 marriage for reference some of it is hard to make out but here’s my attempt:

Married at Store by Rev Peter Davidson, Alexander MacKenzie, Shoemaker Baddydanach & Anne McLeod Inheak on the 26th May 1840

Not sure if this is the correct couple now as Alexander was marked as a crofter in the records I have at Hughs death.

I have attached the screengrab of the record entry for reference.

Here is a link to the full image too if you want to have a look:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gfeurryzag1wmx8d4hzw6/ScotlandsPeople_OPR044_000_0020_0109Z.jpg?rlkey=j90fft1expog57igezap81f4r&e=1&dl=0

I see a few Kerrs on there too.


Thank you all for your help.

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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #7 on: Monday 25 August 25 14:12 BST (UK) »
I think it's Baddydarach - see https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC0822

And I think Anne is from Torbreck - there are several but this one https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC0824 is on the road to Stoer.

However I really think this marriage is only muddying the waters!

Quote
Hughs death was registered by John Kerr his son and Janets was registered by Hugh Kerr.
The thing that puzzles me is that Hughs surname is Kerr and his marked father was a MacKenzie, would there be any other reason for this?
Me too.

The only thing I can think of it that John made a mistake, or the registrar misunderstood what John told him.

.... I wonder who the John Kerr and Merran Kerr in Drumbeg were who were also married in 1840?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline trish1120

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Re: Hugh Kerr & Jannet MacKenzie
« Reply #8 on: Monday 25 August 25 15:17 BST (UK) »
Just in case it helps in the future;

On FreeREG

Bapt 28 Feb 1799 Free Church, Assynt
MARGARET Kerr Parents MURDOCH/CHRISTIAN
Fathers Occp Tenant

+
NORMAN    26 Apr 1800
MARY 10 Dec 1802
KATHERINE 21 Jun 1803 abode Druimbaig
ANN 16 Jun 1805 has Father as Grasskeeper to Capt Scobie
Later bapts have Mother as McKENZIE
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)