Author Topic: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown  (Read 2983 times)

Offline jamesm113

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 24 August 25 07:44 BST (UK) »
William was a farmer on all the civil records I've found.

The person I know to be his father (John), was a farmer in Creeny as well.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 24 August 25 07:46 BST (UK) »
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 24 August 25 07:46 BST (UK) »
William was a farmer on all the civil records I've found.

The person I know to be his father (John), was a farmer in Creeny as well.

So William had to get a farm in Drummullagh.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline jamesm113

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 24 August 25 08:38 BST (UK) »
It is often possible to figure out who had inherited or was occupying the properties listed in GV, by comparison with names and land area in the tythe valuation. But you have to allow for the fact that tythe land area is almost always given in Irish acres, while GV is in English acres.
Hmm, staring at the applotment book, I'm not sure what to make of the columns and am having trouble decoding all the values.


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 24 August 25 09:08 BST (UK) »
If you need to convert acres from one form to another see this post in IRELAND RESOURCES-
There are several different systems of land measurement in place in Ireland at various times.

Statute acre (or English acre) = 4840 square yards

Cunningham acre = 6250 square yards
A Scottish measurement. Cunningham acres need to be multiplied by 1.29 to convert them to English, statute acres.
www.clancunningham.org/photos/Settlement6.html

Irish acre = 7840 square yards
www.sizes.com/units/irish_acre.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre_(Irish)
conversion table: www.convertcenter.com/convertunit.aspx/area/irish_acre/all/56/0/1

This may explain the differences in the acreage of a farm which seems to have changed in size.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 24 August 25 16:31 BST (UK) »

Hmm, staring at the applotment book, I'm not sure what to make of the columns and am having trouble decoding all the values.

It is relatively straightforward, once you know the units.

The first three columns are the valuator's estimation of the relative quality of different portions of land - 1st, 2nd and 3rd class land. The fourth colums is for the area of any included roads, while the 5th column is the total area of each holding. The units used for land area seem to cause some confusion these days - it is in A-R-P, that is Acres, Roods and Perches. There being 40 perches in a rood, and 4 roods in an acre. So there are 160 perches in in acre.

The 5th, 6th and 7th columns are the actual tythe valuation of each lot as a monetary value
The 5th column being how much was due per annum to the vicar
The 6th column how much was due to the lay impropiator, and
The 7th column is the total amount due as tythe from that holding.
These columns are in £-s-d (pronounced LSD).
Where £ is pounds, s is shillings, and d is pence.
There were 12 pennies in a shilling, and 20 shillings in a pound. So 240 pennies in a pound.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline jamesm113

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 24 August 25 21:12 BST (UK) »
To be honest, none of the holdings up match fairly well.

With the conversion, there was 121.96 english acres in the tithe books and 125.21 english acres in GV for the whole townland. I assume they measured differently, so that seems close enough.

Laurence Reilly Widow had 18.94 in the Tithe books and Laurence Reilly (perhaps a son) had 20.125 in GV. This one matches up the best.
John Reily had 9.95 in the tithe books, can't find a match in GV - probably redistributed
Philip Reilly had 20.1 in the tithe books, but only 10.2 in combined holds in GV
John Lynch Widow had 20.5 in the tithe books, Bernard Lynch 30.3
John Fitzpatrick had 37.4 in the tithe books. Terence had 15, Peter had 39, James had 7 in GV
James Maguire had 15.19 in the tithe books, but no Maguires were in the GV - probably redistributed land?

Regardless, I don't have any evidence that James Maguire was a relative - there were hundreds of Maguires in Cavan at the time.


Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #16 on: Monday 25 August 25 01:53 BST (UK) »
To be honest, none of the holdings up match fairly well.

With the conversion, there was 121.96 english acres in the tithe books and 125.21 english acres in GV for the whole townland. I assume they measured differently, so that seems close enough.

Laurence Reilly Widow had 18.94 in the Tithe books and Laurence Reilly (perhaps a son) had 20.125 in GV. This one matches up the best.
John Reily had 9.95 in the tithe books, can't find a match in GV - probably redistributed
Philip Reilly had 20.1 in the tithe books, but only 10.2 in combined holds in GV
John Lynch Widow had 20.5 in the tithe books, Bernard Lynch 30.3
John Fitzpatrick had 37.4 in the tithe books. Terence had 15, Peter had 39, James had 7 in GV
James Maguire had 15.19 in the tithe books, but no Maguires were in the GV - probably redistributed land?

Regardless, I don't have any evidence that James Maguire was a relative - there were hundreds of Maguires in Cavan at the time.

There are several books on the history of mapping and surveying in Ireland. The difference in area between tythe and Griffiths surveys is typically up to 5%, so 122 versus 125 acres for the total area of the townland is well within the expected difference, at just 2.6%.

I think there is an excellent match between the holding of James Maguire in the tythe survey, 15 acres, and Terence FitzPatrick in GV - also 15 acres. I would conclude that Terence obtained what had been James' farm.  What would be interesting is what farm William Maguire obtained. That can be determined from the cancelled rates (valuation) books, available on FamilySearch.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline jamesm113

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Re: Help with Bridget Donohoe near Miltown
« Reply #17 on: Monday 25 August 25 05:17 BST (UK) »
Sorry, haven't explored these records much.

Do you mean the valution books, 1829-1850? https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/276305

Or the Ireland, Valuation office books, 1831-1856:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=Q6F7-YX6%3A1069019303%2C1069047253%3Fcc%3D2329951&cc=2329951

Or Simply the valuation books?
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/1149346