Royal Hospital School in Greenwich

[overlandermatt]

My grandfather (and shortly later his two younger brothers) attended the RHS in Greenwich between 1905 and 1908 (aged 11-14). I'm interested to learn a bit more about the school as I am trying to write a brief summary of his time there. I have a copy of the school report on leaving to join the Royal Marine Light Infantry in Plymouth - a route all three brothers followed. I would be interested to know what may be inferred from the entries on the report.

I've read various articles about the school over the years and recently discovered the school magazines that are available from 1907 onwards - this is particularly fortunate to coincide with his time at the school and there was even a picture of him as part of the drum and fife band - the earliest photo I have of him.

My grandfather and his brothers were sons of a sergeant of the RMLI who died suddenly a couple of years after completing 25 years service leaving a family of 7 children with an uncertain future. The entrance register from the National Archives had them entered as orphans which was not true but the family certainly was in a difficult situation.

I notice there were two schools - an upper and lower school which I am not sure whether it relates to a separation between the boys of officer and non-officer fathers, particularly those whose entry was dependent on charity.

The report suggests attainments in school, seamanship, trade (in this case band), gunnery and signals. From what I have heard, my grandfather was a reasonable musician and played a number of instruments and was a member of the ship's band when aboard. I presume this must have started back in Greenwich.

What I have no idea about is the line about the examination place and no in class - where it is entered 4th and standard. I wonder what this refers to? I believe there was an educational standard that was written on the RMLI service record that had a bearing on promotions.

Other entries on the report sound very much in line with service terminology - three good conduct badges, there also seems to be a hierarchy with ranks.

It's interesting to discover that three poor boys from Plymouth should end up at school in Greenwich. It seems an odd turn of events and I do wonder how this all came about. Who would have applied for this? I don't know what schooling was received prior to going to Greenwich but an older brother attended the local National School - I have a headmaster's letter of reference for him to join the Royal Marines at age 13 so would presumably the younger brothers would have gone there.   

It's an interesting part of my grandfather's story and just wonder what additional information I can gather from this time. If there is anyone familiar with the RHS in Greenwich that might be able to point me in the right direction, that would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

Matt

[Andy J2022]

A couple of points about what you already have about the RHS. You mention there was an upper and lower school. I believe this was entirely based on the age of the child, and nothing to do with the status of the boys' fathers. Sons (and daughters) of Royal Navy officers did not attend the RHS. If an officer  fell upon hard times, his children might have gone to the Royal Naval School in Camberwell or in case of daughters, to the girls' school of the same name in Richmond Green, London.

From the earliest days, pupils of the RHS were all sons of serving, retired or deceased sailors and marines, and were destined to become junior, and later senior, non-commissioned officers in the Navy and Royal Marines. The education they received at the RHS was obviously heavily slanted towards this objective, hence the gunnery and signals training which no ordinary school child would have received. It was a boarding establishment and so the school days were much longer then in civilian schools and thus much more training and tuition could be squeezed in to their time at school. The regime was pretty tough, so that once a boy left to join either the Navy or the Marines he was already accustomed to the hardships he would find in adult service.

[maddys52]

I'm certainly no expert on the Royal Hospital School, Greenwich, however looking at some newspaper articles of the time, I notice in a letter to the Times mention of Lloyd's Patriotic Fund:

"To this admirable institution [Royal Hospital School, Greenwich], which it did so much to found, the Patriotic - now Lloyd's Patriotic Fund still nominates boys; and it also, from a limited income, still makes small grants to sailors and soldiers, officers as well as men, wounded in action, and to their widows, orphans and dependent relatives ..."
Publication: The Times (London, England)
Date: Friday,  May 5, 1905

I take it to mean they gave scholarships?

Also an interesting article with photos about the School from 1895:
"In 1821 the Royal Navy Asylum (founded out of Lloyd's Patriotic Fund, and containing six hundred boys) was amalgamated with Greenwich Hospital School, forming two schools - the Upper School and the Lower School - the one, however, being for children of commissioned officers and the other for children of seamen.
  In 1862 the two schools were really made one, and the sons of commissioned officers were excluded ..."

As well as boarders, there were day students "under the Boreman Foundation".

Publication: Chums: An Illustrated Paper for Boys (London, England)
Author: W. J. FROST Date: Wednesday,  Oct. 30, 1895

[Andy J2022]

I have to say I am perplexed by the remarks in the article in Chums: An Illustrated Paper for Boys which Maddys52 quotes, concerning the upper and lower schools. As I understand the history of the Royal Hospital at Greenwich which I have visited several times, after the Hospital was set up for destitute sailors, a school was created later in the same grounds on the western side of the site closest to the town of Greenwich. This is described in the wikipedia article on the Royal Hospital Itself:

A Royal Hospital School opened on the site [of the Royal Hospital] in 1712 to provide assistance and education to the orphans of seafarers in the Royal and Merchant Navies. In 1820, the school incorporated the Royal Naval Asylum.

Another source says that the school on the site wasn't established there until 1758, with the teaching prior to that date being conducted in the town of Greenwich under the auspices of a Mr Thomas Weston.

Around 1806 the separate establishment known as the Royal Naval Asylum had acquired the Queen's House which lies to the South of the Royal Hospital. The two establishments were entirely separate, with the Asylum school taking primary aged pupils and the RHS taking boys from the age of 14. Confusingly the physically lower premises in the Hospital precincts beside the Thames were known as the Upper school because it housed the senior pupils, while the Asylum school situated in the Queen's house further up the hill into Greenwich Park was referred to as the Lower school, and was home to the junior pupils.

The two establishments amalgamated in 1821 and henceforward the amalgamated school operated in the Queen's House buildings until 1933 when it moved to Holbrook, Suffolk where it is today.  The old school buildings were reopened the following year as the National Maritime Museum.

None of the sources I have seen (apart from the article maddys52 quoted) mentions any provision for officer's children. Among the pupils at both the RHS  and the Asylum School there were the sons of other seafarers, the latter having been nominated by the Lloyds Patriotic Fund. Of course there could have been a few sons of Naval officers among them, but I don't think that one school was purely for officer's children.

Other sources:
A brief History of the Royal Hospital School
The Cradle of the Navy

[maddys52]

I have done a bit more reading about the Hospital School, I think the wording of the article I quoted was perhaps misleading. Another source states that when the Royal Navy Asylum and the Hospital School were combined in 1821, the Hopsital School became known as the Upper, and the Asylum as the Lower.

After changes in 1870, the Lower Division accepted boys aged 10 - 10 1/4 years, a combination of "school" and "industrial occupations". They left aged 13 and could enter any occupation, not necessarily Navy, or could enter the Upper Division, or be admitted to the Select Division. The Upper Division was for boys 13 years who wanted to enter the Royal Navy. They left aged 14 1/2.

"The schools for the people: containing the history, development and present working of each description of English school for the industrial and poorer classes": by George C. T. Bartley
Published 1871

https://archive.org/details/a546772900bartuoft/page/n241/mode/2up?q

[Andy J2022]

That's an excellent source, thanks Maddy.