1599 Inquisition Post Mortem

[JosiahS]

Hello there

I have just downloaded the inquisition post mortem for my ancestor John Brett of New Romsey from the NA.  Unfortunately it is damaged top left (something they didn't mention when I paid for a page check)

Inevitably the handwriting is difficult, but because the beginning of the document is damaged I'm having trouble getting started.

Does anyone have a link, or experience, which would explain what the format of the document is normally?  With things like wills the first section is generally about their state of health etc., so not that essential, but with this I just don't know.

I can see the Latin word 'idem' appearing throughout the text, so I presume something is being repeated as it is 'the same'.

Any advice would be helpful before I start slogging through it!

Thank you in advance

[horselydown86]

I have posted the first three lines from the latest IPM which I have.  It was taken in Derbyshire in 1513.  The names have been contracted to initials.

Noticeable in this compared to my earlier IPMs is that the jurors weren't listed individually.  I don't know whether this is common for 1513 or whether it is the same in 1599.

If this doesn't help, you can post a clip of the first words surviving from the first few lines at the top-left and we can see what can be concluded from them.

*******************************************************************************************************************************
Derb

Inquisicio indentata capta apud Derb in Com p(re)d(i)c(t)o s(e)c(un)do die Decembr(is) Anno regno Regis henrici octavi quarto coram henr' Cokayn Armig(er)o Escaetore d(omi)ni Regis in Com' p(re)d(i)c(t)o virtute br(ev)is d(i)c(t)i d(omi)ni Regis de diem clausit extremu(m) eidem Escaet' post mortem JC nup(er) de K Armig(er)i direct(i) &

huic inquisic(i)o(n)i indentat' annex(i) p(er) sacr(u)m &c'  Qui dicunt sup(er) sacr(u)m suu(m) q(uo)d p(re)d(i)c(t)us JC in d(i)c(t)o br(ev)i no(m)i(n)at' diu ante mortem suam cepit in ux(or)em quandam EE apud K p(re)dict' in Com p(re)d(i)c(t)o  Et dic(unt) q(uo)d ante obitu(m) d(i)c(t)i JC quidam RB RS

HP RK senior RP Armig(er)i & JW cl(er)icus fuer(unt) seisiti in d(omi)nico suo ut de feodo de & in man(er)io de K in Com p(re)d(i)c(t)o cum suis p(er)tin(entiis)  Ac de & in quatuor mesuag' quatuor Cotag' Centu(m) & viginti acr' t(er)re .....

[Bookbox]

Inevitably the handwriting is difficult, but because the beginning of the document is damaged I'm having trouble getting started.

By this late date there will be two copies of the IPM - one in series C 142 and the other in WARD 7.

C 142
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7825188

WARD 7
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7735321

It is anyone's guess as to which copy will be better. But if important parts are illegible in the copy that you have (as sometimes happens), there is always the option of trying the other one.

The standard TNA research guide tells you what you can expect to find in an IPM, although there is some variation of content depending on the date and the circumstances of the individual.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/inquisitions-post-mortem/#5-what-information-do-the-records-contain

You are welcome to post any difficult parts on here, and someone will surely try to help.

[JosiahS]

Many thanks to both of you for your help.

You are quite right the document is in the truncated cod latin they were using back then - it is 47 years since I did O-level Latin and I just knew it would come in handy one day.  Worth saying that after the page check I paid for at the NA they also told me it was in English as that was one of my questions.

The copy reference I have is 7836148_WAD_7_24_162_00001 so I presume it is in Ward 7 - should I look for the other one too in case it is undamaged? 

I'm having problems with the links you posted - they are both timing out but I think they are having website problem as other searched are taking forever or not completing.  I managed to get to the information page on what might be included which was helpful but even the links from that page for more information are not working.

Thanks again for your advice

[Bookbox]

The copy reference I have is 7836148_WAD_7_24_162_00001 so I presume it is in Ward 7 - should I look for the other one too in case it is undamaged? 

Yes, that's the WARD 7 copy. I would see how much you can get out of this copy before ordering the other one, as you will have to pay again, and you may not need it.

TNA Discovery was having a temporary blip earlier. It seems to be fixed now.

[JosiahS]

Yes thanks - I've managed to get through to those pages now.

I'll see how I get on - I've nearly finished transcribing his will and I'll move onto that afterwards.

[JosiahS]

Hi there

Having now completed the will and worked out how all of the people are related to John Brett, the principal, I've taken a quick look at the IPM.  I realise that while it starts in Latin and finishes in Latin there is a whole English section in the middle which is word-for-word one section of the will relating to property.

Is that usual?  Sorry it is the first time I've had to deal with one of these.

Thank you

[horselydown86]

It is usual in legal documents of the Latin period to find that documents written in English are quoted in English.

For example, it's common to find the text of indentures which were originally written in English quoted in English in the pleadings from the Court of Common Pleas.

I can't say how early this begins, but it certainly occurs from the second half of the C15^th.

ADDED:

You'll usually find the last words in Latin preceding a quote from an English document are:  ...in hec verba

[JosiahS]

Thank you - that makes perfect sense!