Can't find grandfather's history anywhere

[LizzieL]

1953 census Nellie D Thomas and Donald D Thomas living at 13 Chapel Farm Terrace, Abercarn. Could just be another couple with similar names. Abercarn was mentioned before wasn't it.?

There was a census in 1953?

sorry meant electoral register. Ancestry have censuses and electoral registers in same section

[softly softly]

Patience is a virtue. Lets wait and see what Pburkat89 wants to do about certificates. I think we have accounted for nearly all the parties involved except for Nelly.

SS

[Mabel Bagshawe]

On the other hand, what did Bertha's status of "non-refugee" mean?

My guess is that as a British born person of British parents, although automatically assuming German nationality and losing her British status on marriage as per the law in those days, she was able to return to the UK without having to claim refugee status. She was still deemed an alien on outbreak of war, but deemed sufficiently safe not to be interned

[Neale1961]

Unfortunately some recent posts to this thread are very confused, and have just added outlandish guesswork with mention of Nazi torture houses, etc.  Not helpful. 

The first sign of Nelly in the UK is her marriage in 1949.
We have no evidence of Nelly in the UK in 1939 or before.
We don’t know when she was born.
Nelly has no Internment Exemption card, like Bertha Dorothy Burkat (British born but married to a German), or August Wilhelm Fries, because she wasn’t in the UK at that time.

It is possible that Nelly and Bertha Dorothy Burkat nee Fries were sisters-in-law; some family link seems probable.  It seems likely that Nelly came to the UK after WW2, or at least late in the war.

If Pburkat89 wants to take the investigation further, then marriage certificates for both Nelly and Theodore will be needed.

[PatLac]

Oh well, you really like to harass me don't you? No worries, I won't post anything on here anymore. You won, Neal, are you proud of yourself?

[Dundee]

I thought she had married in 1955 but if she is in East Sussex in 1963, perhaps not, PatLac.

If I recall, she is Elsie in 1921 with her mother, Martha.

Martha and Eleanor/Elsie are together in 1939 and yes, she married in 1955, but they are not together on electoral rolls.

Debra 

[LizzieL]

The first sign of Nelly in the UK is her marriage in 1949.
We have no evidence of Nelly in the UK in 1939 or before.
We don’t know when she was born.
Nelly has no Internment Exemption card, like Bertha Dorothy Burkat (British born but married to a German), or August Wilhelm Fries, because she wasn’t in the UK at that time.

It is possible that Nelly and Bertha Dorothy Burkat nee Fries were sisters-in-law; some family link seems probable.  It seems likely that Nelly came to the UK after WW2, or at least late in the war.

The first record of Nelly as Nelly Burkat was he 1949 marriage, but if she left Germany with her two sons Theodore and Otto disguised as girls, the family is likely to have travelled on false papers with different names. So maybe there are Internment exemption cards for them, we just don't know what names to search for. We know Theodore was born in 1933, we don't know if Otto was older or younger. What is the maximum age a little boy could be and still pass for a girl? My guess would be around 6 or 7, so came to UK early in the war. If Otto was the older brother it would likely be just before the war started.

[heywood]

Neale1961

From the beginning of the thread, your points have been suggested several times and Pburkat has enquired on here re certificates so hopefully in a few weeks time we might get closer.
Bertha and family have been discussed at length, which at times has been a bit confusing and digressing going into her past history.
It seems as though her mother went to Germany - maybe with Frederick/Fritz who knows.
If August Wilhelm is her son and the younger Bertha’s brother/half brother, he gives his father as August Wilhelm Bose which hopefully doesn’t complicate matters more or adds to further searches but adds to the complexity of the family.
He is not yet directly linked to Nelly, our subject.

Lizzie makes a point that records may be under a different name. We have been told that Burkat is thought to be a false name.
Lastly, PatLac posted that account of a ‘Fritz Fries’ in Germany - perhaps a quite common name.
Again, though, as there is the possibility of a ‘military’ connection and a possibly extreme reason for leaving, PatLac might have thought it helped.

[Dundee]

1953 census Nellie D Thomas and Donald D Thomas living at 13 Chapel Farm Terrace, Abercarn. Could just be another couple with similar names. Abercarn was mentioned before wasn't it.?

That is the correct couple, Donald's sister and her husband are at the same address.

Debra