Can't find grandfather's history anywhere

[LizzieL]

Where does Nelly fit in to all this?

[LizzieL]

1911 census Shoreditch
Bertha Friese 32 born Ham Hampshire, dressmaker. Married 11 years (so sign of husband)

No Ham in Hampshire. I think she is the Bertha d/o Alfred and Mary living in Cliddesden road Basingstoke in 1891. Not with family in 1901 when she would be abt 21. She says she's been married 11 years - so abt 1900. Not found in England / Wales, so possibly Germany (or they never married) Then she has Bertha Dorothea and Elsie Isobel born in London. Did she go back to Germany after 1911, have August Wilhelm in Dortmund in 1920 and come back to England before 1927 ? She married again in 1927 in London (as a widow or divorcee?) Or is August not her son but a relative of her husband?

[KGarrad]

Potential birth?

June qtr 1879
South Stoneham Registration District     vol 2c, page 47

Allen, Bertha Rosina   Mother's Maiden Name: Fisher

[heywood]

It would be good to hear from Pburkat.
It may be that Nelly and Bertha Dorothea Burkat are sisters in law.
As we have said, the marriage certificates would hopefully help - Nelly’s certainly.

[LizzieL]

Another possibility
Bertha Allen Q2 1880 Basingstoke Volume 2C  Page 195
mmn Spiers


This matches with marriage of Albert Allen and Mary Spiers. Basingstoke district is better match to the pob that Bertha gives in 1911 (NOT Ham) and where the family is living in 1891

[LizzieL]

There are some trees on Ancestry have the Bertha I found marrying in 1902. But this is a different Bertha d/o James b Shipton Bellinger
901 Piece number 1114. Folio 58  page 8
and married to William Henry Smith in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQB-NPF?lang=en

[softly softly]

Info only

Marriages Sep 1949   

Burkat    Nelly    Thomas    Caerleon    8c   491    
Thomas    Donald D H    Burkat    Caerleon    8c   491    

--------------------

THOMAS, DONALD  DAVID HENRY    1927 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q4/2010 in NEWPORT  (8361A)  Reg 1A010  Entry Number 504086739

SS

[LizzieL]

Info only

Marriages Sep 1949   

Burkat    Nelly    Thomas    Caerleon    8c   491    
Thomas    Donald D H    Burkat    Caerleon    8c   491    

--------------------

THOMAS, DONALD  DAVID HENRY    1927 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q4/2010 in NEWPORT  (8361A)  Reg 1A010  Entry Number 504086739

SS

Nelly's husband born in 1927, unless Nelly was very much older, she couldn't be Theorore's mother (b 1933)

[softly softly]

Info again.

Births Jun 1950   

Thomas    **** *    Burkat    Pontypool    8c   338

---------

THOMAS, TONY  CHRISTOPHER     DOB 1950 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q3/2018 in KENT  (564-1G)  Entry Number 517762457

SS