Can't find grandfather's history anywhere

[BushInn1746]

Some Tribunal Files (Various) ...

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Tribunal&_cr=HO&_dss=range&_sd=1939&_ed=1942&_ro=any&_st=adv

Added:
I can't seem to find a 1939 file, so you would have to enquire direct to the Archives with the Index Card, if not available online.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Name: Dorothea Berta Burkat. Date of Birth: 21/01/1906. Place of Birth: London.

See Card for Birth year looks like 1908, as previously mentioned By Rosie

HO 396/12/232

Decision 1939 (14-11-39 )

Birth Year Catalogue description correction to The National Archives, submitted.

[Pburkat89]

So there is no British record of a birth certificate for Theodore or Otto?

If there mum was Nelly and she was Dorotheas daughter, does that mean she could have been born in Germany? Had the two boys there and then come back to the UK with her British born mum, albeit from German parents?

I'm new to this so just trying to piece together what happened as it's all vague

[BushInn1746]

London, Battersea
                               Woodhouse
In the 1939 Register, Burkat Bertha was numbered on the schedule as 48 and D [Divorced it seems]

The person numbered 49 on the Schedule is a series of line dashes.

There are a few lines with those line dashes in the adjacent properties.

[BushInn1746]

My family history is very intriguing and I keep on turning up blanks.

Its a long story but I'll try keep it simple.

My dad who passed recently was Michael Burkat, his father was Theodore Arno or Arnold Burkat.
When Theodore passed away, a German or Austrian birth certificate was found, we don't know what was on it exactly but our surname Burkat wasn't there, it was something else

Burkat is a made up name apparently.
My dad's mum in her later years said that she would not tell us the name as to protect the family..
She never ever left Wales, she was devout to it, yet when Theodore died, she paid a visit to Germany, something she had never done before.

She then told the story of how Theodore was smuggled out of Europe with his brother Otto dressed as young girls, apparently their mother Nell or Nelly had to get them out as she had relations with a high ranking military official.
They came to the UK and Theodore lived in Wales and married J Sykes, he died in 1997

That's all we know about the history but our surname Burkat is false apparently and I'd love to know more.

Can anyone begin to find his history as I turn up a blank!

I presume you have seen the Death Certificate of Theodore (the one for whom they found a Birth Certificate for) and seen what was recorded and what information was given to the Registrar at Death?

If not and nobody kept a copy of that Death Certificate, you could apply for a Certified Full Copy Death Certificate from the Local Registrar (or from the General Register Office if the death occurred in England and Wales).

[rosie99]

So there is no British record of a birth certificate for Theodore or Otto?

If there mum was Nelly and she was Dorotheas daughter, does that mean she could have been born in Germany? Had the two boys there and then come back to the UK with her British born mum, albeit from German parents?

I'm new to this so just trying to piece together what happened as it's all vague

The only thing that 'links Bertha Dorothea to Nelly at the moment is that her marriage, like Theodores was registered in the Caerleon registration district.

You really need to take one step at a time, working backwards from Theodore's marriage certificate.  Sometimes witnesses names can be helpful.  It may also be a good idea to purchase the certificate for Nelly's marriage

We have established that Bertha Dorothea was born c1908, she can't be the grandmother of   Theodore who was born c1933

[Pburkat89]

My family history is very intriguing and I keep on turning up blanks.

Its a long story but I'll try keep it simple.

My dad who passed recently was Michael Burkat, his father was Theodore Arno or Arnold Burkat.
When Theodore passed away, a German or Austrian birth certificate was found, we don't know what was on it exactly but our surname Burkat wasn't there, it was something else

Burkat is a made up name apparently.
My dad's mum in her later years said that she would not tell us the name as to protect the family..
She never ever left Wales, she was devout to it, yet when Theodore died, she paid a visit to Germany, something she had never done before.

She then told the story of how Theodore was smuggled out of Europe with his brother Otto dressed as young girls, apparently their mother Nell or Nelly had to get them out as she had relations with a high ranking military official.
They came to the UK and Theodore lived in Wales and married J Sykes, he died in 1997

That's all we know about the history but our surname Burkat is false apparently and I'd love to know more.

Can anyone begin to find his history as I turn up a blank!

I presume you have seen the Death Certificate of Theodore (the one for whom they found a Birth Certificate for) and seen what was recorded and what information was given to the Registrar at Death?

If not and nobody kept a copy of that Death Certificate, you could apply for a Certified Full Copy Death Certificate from the Local Registrar (or from the General Register Office if the death occurred in England and Wales).

No I have not seen the death certificate, I was 8 years old when he died..

That side of the family we was estranged from.

Theodore died in Wales in 1997, that I know is a fact as my dad went to his funeral.

[heywood]

The name may be an anglicised or more phonetic way of saying the name.
I realise you may not know this but was he raised by his mother in Wales?
Did they arrive during the war?
Was he raised locally to his marriage place?
The marriage certificate would hopefully provide a bit of information for you.

Added
Family Search shows similar German surnames - Burkhardt/Burkhard/Burghardt etc

[Jool]

Just trying to establish if there is a link between Bertha Dorothea Burkat and the family we are researching or if she is a red herring.

This birth registration caught my eye.
Ernest W Burkat
A/M/J 1941
Battersea. London
Mother's Maiden Name: Fries
Volume 1d, Page 282

Ernest's death registration:
Ernest William Burkat
Birth Date: 9 Apr 1941
Death Registration Date: Oct 2006
Winchester, Hampshire.
Register Number   E29A
District and Subdistrict 502/2
Entry Number 031

He married in 1967 in Sutton, London. (I won't mention his wife's name as she may still be living - easily found on FreeBMD).

The Gwent Electoral Registers (Ancestry) show that from 1962 to 1969 Ernest is living at 9 Llanfach Road, Abercarn - the same address given on the 1962 probate index for Bertha D Woodhouse (Burkat).  No one else listed with him apart from in 1965 when there are also 2 males, W.G Woodhouse and T.R Woodhouse (again, won't list full names in case they are still living).

Looking at the 1939 Register entry for (divorced) Bertha D Burkat (later Woodhouse) in Battersea, members of the family next door have the surname FREES:

Bertha Morris, widow, b. 1880
Elsie I Frees (later Mathews), single, b. 1910 (Elsie I FRIES married Walter Matthews in 1943 in Battersea)
August William Frees, single, b. 1920

Maybe Bertha's maiden name was Fries/Frees and she married and divorced a Mr. Burkat before 1939.

Pburkat89, you say you are new to all this so you may find this confusing but the Rootschat researchers will make sense of it and possibly find more info.

ADDED:
birth:
Bertha Dorothy Friese
Volume 1C, Page 108
q1 1908
Mother's maiden name Allen
Shoreditch, London

[Neale1961]

Following on from Jools post above ..........

1911 census Shoreditch
Bertha Friese 32 born Ham Hampshire, dressmaker. Married 11 years (no sign of husband)
Bertha Friese 3 daughter born shoreditch
Elsie Friese 0 daughter born Shoreditch

Births -
   FRIESE, BERTHA  DOROTHY               Mother - ALLEN 
   GRO Reference: 1908  M Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 108

   FRIESE, ELSIE  ISOBEL                       Mother - ALLEN 
   GRO Reference: 1910  S Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 85


 - No marriage for Bertha Allen to FRIESE found.
-  No sign of Bertha or children in 1921 census.

Bertha ALLEN aka Bertha FRIES
married Edward R MORRIS
1927 St George Hanover Square  1a 1150


1939 Reg for 6 Lindore Rd Battersea
in the home of Bertha MORRIS (1880) widow
With Eloise I Freese b July 1910 dressmaker
August W  Frees born 20 Aug 1920 a pipe tester


(ALL living at same address as Bertha BURKET who went on to marry Woodhouse)

Exemption from Internment card from Nov 1939
August Wilhelm FRIES
Birth 20 Aug 1920 Dortmund Germany
Address 6 Lindore Rd Battersea
Occupation Pipe Tester


I am thinking that Bertha Allan / Fries went off to Germany with her 2 girls sometime after 1911 census. While there she gave birth to a son, August Wilhelm, and her daughter Bertha Dorothy married a German called Mr Burkat.
 Bertha Fries came back to England before 1927, because she married then.

Did the daughter Bertha Dorothy stay on in Germany? She was back in England by 1938 when she appears on the electoral roll under the surname Burkat. She is the right age to have a son called Theodore Arnold born in Germany in 1933, who came to England at a later date?

All speculation. Marriage certificate is needed.